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02-24-1987' ` PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES � The Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular session . on Tuesday, February 24, 1987 at 7:00 P.M. in the Municipal Complex Conference Room, 1400 Live Oak Road. Those present were as follows: PLANNING-AND ZONING COMMISSION OTHERS PRESENT THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN BOB ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN JAMES HARDEN, SECRETARY MERWIN WILLMAN TY BRISGILL KEITH VAN DINE KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN MEMBERS ABSENT DAVID ALLEN CITY STAFF STEVE SIMONSON, ASST. CITY MGR. #1 CALL TO ORDER RICHARD OEMUNBRUN EUGENE BRAWNER CHARLES KOEHLER ROBERT W. WUEST DENNIS D. KUSAK TOM FLORES RON JAROSZEWSKI MIKE MOORE Chairman Yarling called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. #2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: A. Regular Session February 10, 1987 Bob Andrews suggested that on Page 5 at the end of Paragraph 5 after "1700 square feet" the word "homes" be added. � Bob Andrews made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for the regular session February 10, 1987. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. ' B. Special Session February 17, 1987 Bob Andrews asked that on Page 3 at the end of Paragraph 11 the words "from the parking lot" be changed to read "from the right- of-way". Bob Andrews made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for the special session February 17, 1987. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and the vote was as follows: , 71 �-WFF I __i____ --- ______ Ayes: B. Andrews, J. Harden, K. Van Dine Nays:` None Abstentions: T. Yarling The motion carried. ~ � ` M. Willman, T. Brisgill, #3 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS There was none. #4 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Johnson-Dempsey & Associates, Inc. - Request for Sign Variance Richard DeMunbrun of Johnson-Dempsey & Associates was at the meeting to represent this request. Mr. DeMunbrun also introduced Eugene Brawner, Charles Koehler, Robert Wuest and Dennis Kusak. Mr. DeMunbrun said they are building a Pic N Pac, currently under construction, on FM 78 near the entrance to Lone Oak across from the Pizza Hut. Richard DeMunbrun gave a brief presentation to the Commission pointing-out the proposed location of the Pic N Pac (on the corner) and the proposed location of the sign (on the island). Mr. DeMunbrun said the sign is a two-legged sign and the size is considerably less than the maximum size allowed in the ordinance. Mr. DeMunbrun said they are asking for a variance on the front and side setbacks, however, because of the configuration of the parking lot and the flow of traffic around the island. Mr. DeMunbrun said without the variance the sign would have to be located in the middle of the parking lot. Richard DeMunbrun said they are also requesting a height variance from the authorized 15' to 18' and requesting two auxiliary price signs be allowed to be placed below the "Mobile" sign. Bob Andrews noted that in the picture the sign shows one auxiliary sign and they are requesting two,auxiliary signs and Mr. Andrews asked why. Richard DeMunbrun said there is nothing in the catalog to accommodate four prices on a single auxiliary sign and there are four kinds of fuel, thus requiring four prices. Bob Andrews asked the size of the auxiliary signs and Richard DeMunbrun replied they are approximately 4" high and 3 1/2" wide. Chairman Yarling asked if this will � obstruct vision and Mr. DeMunbrun replied that's why they Ore asking for . height variance. Ty Brisgill asked why they chose that side and not the corner to locate the sign and Mr. DeMunbrun replied because the ordinance requires a visibility triangle. -2- ' ` Chairman Yarling asked how high the canopy will be and Richard DeMunbrun said the bottom will be 15' high and the top will be 18' high. Bob Andrews asked if theyblacktopped the bar ditch and Mr. DeMunbrun replied yes. Bob� Andrews also questioned him about the island and Mr. DeMunbrun said they had planned on making it concrete but it was only going to be painted in with stripes because of the highway and drainage work that's planned for the future by the Highway Department. Ty Brisgill asked how the City interprets from what point they measure the visibility triangle and Steve Simonson said the City uses the property line. ' Ty Brisgill then asked about the Stop sign and Ken Greenwald said that would be a question of where the current blacktop is versus the actual right-of-way. Steve Simonson once again outlined the variances being requested and gave their applicable location in the Sign Ordinance: . (1) Height variance - Page 9, Para. 5a.(2) (The authorized height is 151, they are asking for 18' height.) (2) Side & front setback variance - Page 9, Paras. 5a.(3) and 5a.(4) (The authorized front setback is 21.45', they are asking for a front setback of 2'.) (The authorized side setback is 50', they are asking for a side setback of 12'.) (3) Auxiliary signs variance - Page 1O, Para. 5c.(6) (The ordinance does not allow auxiliary signs, they are asking for two auxiliary signs.) Chairman Yarling asked if we had allowed signs on other canopies and Steve Simonson replied yes we had but the Sign Ordinance was not in effect at that time. There was a brief discussion on the proposed number of signs ' versus the number of signs allowed in the ordinance. Bob Andrews asked if the sign will be eternally lighted and Richard DeMunbrun replied it is not lighted twenty-four hours, it is on a time clock. Bob Andrews asked if the only sign to face FM 78 would be the "Mobile" sign and the price auxiliary signs and Mr. D«*Mun .run said no, there would also be a Pic N Pac sign on the side of the canopy facing FM 78. -3- , ` There was a question on the frontage and Steve Simonson said it was 180+ feet. Chairman asked if this didn't fit in with the Pizza Hut sign and Steve Simonson said yes it does basically. Mr. Simonson did mention, however, that the Sign Ordinance requires conformity by 1990. � Merwin Willman remarked that when he looked through his package he couldn't figure out where this sign was supposed to be located and that all they were asking for in their letter was one variance. � Bob Andrews said he was basically inclined to agree. Mr. Andrews pointed out to Mr. DeMundrun that he lives in Lone Oak, goes by the proposed sign location everyday, but couldn't determine for sure what they were requesting. Mr. Andrews went on to say the Planning and Zoning Commision needs some time to research this in order to make their decision. Richard DeMundrun told the Commission if there are any questions he will be glad to answer them, and if not, Mr. DeMundrun said he will leave the decision in the hands of the Commission. Bob Andrews asked if there was any possibility of eliminating the second price sign, but Richard DeMundrun replied they cannot seem to find anything else available in the catalog. Chairman Yarling Jokingly asked Mr. DeMundrun if we grant the variance will he be able to comply by 1990. Steve Simonson commented everyone will be coming in for a variance. Bob Andrews asked Steve Simonson what kind of right-of-way there will be after FM 78 is widened and Mr. Simonson said he thought FM 78 would probably be widened to five lanes so there will still be plenty of right-of-way. Ken 8reenwald commented that if you look where the telephone Poles are located, that is the extent of the right-of-way. After a brief discussion on the right-of-way, Bob Andrews made a motion to recommend we table the request from Johnson-Dempsey & Associates for a sign variance until the next regularly scheduled meeting of March 10, 1987 so we can make some determination as to the requested variances in relation to our Sign Ordinance. Merw -in Willman seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. � Bob Andrews sdggested the discussion of variances in relation to the Sign Ordinance be on the agenda of the next scheduled meeting. -4- ' ` At this time Chairman Yarling said he would like to back up to Item #3 on the agenda: CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS. Mr. Yarling noted there are some people here representing Woodland Oaks and although they are not on the agenda, he thinks we can allow them to speak. Tom Flores, Ron Jaroszewski and Mike Moore were'at the meeting to represent Woodland Oaks. Tom Flores brought up the fact that a couple of weeks ago they brought before us a Development Plan for Woodland Oaks and a Preliminary Plat for Woodland Oaks, Unit 4 and both were tabled. Mr. Flores further stated that they and we are all aware of the drainage problem on Dimrock and pointed out that the greatest part of the solution lies in the approval of Unit 4. Chairman Yarling asked what has been done and Merwin Willman replied we can't do much until Council tells us it's okay and until we get the City Engineer's feedback on this drainage problem. Tom Flores commented that nowhere in the requirements did they see that the drainage problem had to be solved on the Preliminary Plat. Mr. Flores said those types of problems are usually worked out in the final design stage. Bob Andrews asked them to explain the final design stage. Mike Moore said the Preliminary Plat is usually the starting point for getting the streets and the lot configuration and everything on the plat you need for finaling. Mr. Moore then said if Planning and Zoning approves the Preliminary Plat they go to the engineering stage based on that approval and engineer the streets and drainage and everything else, and once the City Engineer approves that, then they go to the final platting stage. Mr. Moore further stated that all the approval of the Preliminary Plat does is give them permission to proceed with design and get City approval on the rest of the engineering itself. Merwin Willman again pointed out that Council gave us a letter asking us not to act until the drainage problem is solved. Steve Simonson. questioned Ken Greenwald as to whether or not he could ask Council to lift the restriction. Bob Andrews said he thought it had been a Preliminary Plan and a Final Plat for Unit 4 that had been brought before us and Mike Moore said no it was a Preliminary Plat for Unit 4. Mike Moore reiterated the fact that they are trying to massive drainage problem and the only way to cure it Unit 4. Mr. Moore said we want to see this done and get started. -5- solve the is through we need to Bob Andrews n rews remarked we draw our information from the learned ones and if we go against their advice, we are not doing our Job. Mike Moore stressed that if they can't get preliminary Plat approval on the lots, then they can't get engineering approval. � Steve Simonson noted the y submitted their construction plans with the Preliminary Plat and most developers don't Mr. Simonson further stated that Ed Ford had a whole list of comments c` on the construction plans, but there were only five items that needed to be corrected on the Preliminary Play. Bob Andrews commented he still did not see a stub-out of Woodland Oaks Orive,� and Mike Moore mentioned several other options they are considering that might possibly serve the same purpose. There was some further discussion on this subject. Tom Flores once again stated they are at the final design stage and they need Preliminary Plat approval. Tom Flores had with him a diagram of the proposed Dimrock Street realignment designed to help solve some of the drainage problem The Commission looked it over and discussed it briefly. ^ - Steve Simonson told Tom Flores that if City Council lifts the restriction we will put them on the agenda for March 3, 1987. All three gentlemen, Tom Flores, Ron Jaroszewski, and Mike Moore claimed they knew nothing about the letter from City Council. There was some discussion about this. ^ Ron Jaroszewski informed the Commission he had been reassured by the bank even if they don't build Unit 4, they will get the money for the drainage reconstruction. Merwin Willman commented we would like to see Woodland Oaks Drive go out to Jack Hays Boulevard and to Schertz Parkway. Mike' Moore said they don't want to spend money to build the crossway, mostly because it does not increase the value of their property -.only that of the adjoining property owners, and explained some of the things they had been trying to work out with several of the adjoining property owners. Mr. Moore said so 'far they had not been successful� Khairman Yarling assured Tom Flores they would be on the next Meeting's agenda subject to Council's approval. . The gentlemen representing Woodland Oaks thanked the Commission for their time. Ty Brisgill commented there are streets in Woodland Oaks that are three years old now and have still not been accepted by the City, NE ` -_-�---__--_ - ^ � / - and yet they keep on building and going ahead and the City still doesn't have anything. Steve Simonson informed the Commission they will be accepting the streets and drainage on a one-by-one basis, there will be no blanket acceptance. Mr. Simonson also said the City has now accepted the drainage from� Kiine Circle to Hidden Grove. Ty Brisgill brought up the fact that other subdivisions in the City are being built but do not seem to be experiencing the same problems. Bob Andrews pointed out to Mr. Brisgill that there are two ' reasons: (1) topography, and (2) Woodland Oaks is selling 40 times more houses than other subdivisions. Steve Simonson remarked that what we had in Woodland Oaks was a twofold problem and both problems are being corrected now where they had failed in the past: (1) The City is taking a much more active part in observing all new construction and reconstruction that is going on; and (2) Woodland Oaks has had a change in engineers and in contractors. It was asked what happens if they get through with Unit 4 and the City still doesn't accept - is there a performance bond. Steve Simonson replied yes there is. There was some further discussion on Woodland Oaks. #5 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Mobile Home Ordinance - Section X - Mobile Homes on Individual Lots Merwin Willman said he had asked at the last meeting for this to be on the agenda. Mr. Willman further stated that on Page 12 Section X, Paragraphs A and C disagree and they need to be ' clarified because of the new zoning district he is writing up' for the Schirmerville area. Mr. Willman said it would be easierfo` him if those two paragraphslwere left as they originally were previous to the February 10, 1987 meeting at which time Planning and Zoning recommended they be changed. After some discussion the Commission decided to withdraw the changes recommended for Section X and leave it as it - /as originally. #6 GENERAL DISCUSSION Bob Andrews commented he h as a big g concern about the fact that we are getting requests for variance upon variance upon variance Mr. Andrews said we need to go over these requests very carefully. ' -7- � / - Bob Andrews also pointed out that in the current issue of the "Zoning Bulletin" 6 of the 13 items covered were on variances - properly granted and improperly granted. Mr. Andrews said on Page 5 o the "Zoning Bulletin" there was a good example reaffirming the requirement that the applicant prove undue hardship if the variance is not granted and that we must also require the applicant to state the reason why he cannot conform to the ordinance. Bob Andrews also said we need to go over the ordinance to see if it is wrong. Ken Greenwald advised the Commission not to go running scared of law suits. Mr. Greenwald also reported that because of the lateness of the meeting he had not had an opportunity to bring up to Council the subject of alternates for the Planning and Zoning Commission, Chairman Yarling asked Mr. Greenwald if he was going to bring it up at the Council Workshop the following evening (2-25-87) and Mr. Greenwald said yes. Ken Greenwald stated we have been trying to get the speed limits on FM 3009 changed and were told by the State Highway Department if we put up our own speed limit signs, they will take them down Mr. Greenwald said he thinks we got our point across though. ^ Ken Greenwald also asked Ty Brisgill, if at the next Homeowners' meeting for Woodland Oaks, he would request parents take our street signs out of their kids' bedrooms. Merwin Willman suggested that one itme on the agenda of our next regularly scheduled meeting be discussion on changing the title of our Overlay District Ordinance from FM 3009 to Jack Hays Bou\evard, Chairman Yarling asked for this item to be put on the agenda for March 10, 1987. Merwin Willman commented the Sign Ordinan ce Council in October of last year and he would | ikwas approved by e to suggest the City Staff that enforces it make a list of what gives them problems and of suggested changes. Merwin Willman said three or four years ago the City bought some books _ "Citizen's Guide to Zoning" and "Citizen's Guide to Planning" and asked if any of the members don't need them to bring them back so we can give them to the new members. � Merwin Willman also rein'inded the Commission of the Joint Public Hearing on March 3, 1987 on the IH 10 frontage. Imm Z 777 ° � - Tv Bri sg ill commen ted Gemc ra ft h as a new temporary development sign and asked if they needed approval to put it up. Mr. Brisgill said it replaced the old Gemcraft/Jim Shepherd Homes sign, but it is in a different location. Ty Brisgill said the .road in Greenshire with the islands is beautiful. Chairman Yarling asked if it's paved and Mr. Brisgill said no - it's still Just dirt. Keith Van Dine mentioned some bad potholes in the road if you drive down Pfeil Road toward Shady Acres coming back toward Lower Seguin Road" Keith Van Dine also mentioned the accident in his area that involved the fatality of a young boy. Mr. Van Dine said it took the ambulance forty-five minutes to arrive and the guy who called the ambulance says he called twice - when he called the second time they told him they hadn't gotten the first call. Mr. Van Dine said it's possible the guy may have called the wrong number first or in his panic not given an address. Steve Simonson and Ken Greenwald both expressed concern about the forty-five minute arrival time. Mr. Simonson said the call is on tape and he would check it out. Mr. Greenwald said we pride ourselves on the quick responses of the ambulances. Keith Van Dine said the Fire Department and the Police Department both need to drive around and become more familiar with the area. Mr. Van Dine remarked that if you don't know where an address is, a good place to stop is Shady Acres - they know where almost everyone lives. Keith Van Dine said the homeowners in his area have now appointed a committee for looking into all the planning and zoning activities pertinent to their properties. Mr. Van Dine said one thing they would like some information about is the location of mobile homes along FM 1518. Steve Simonson informed Mr. Van Dine anyone wishing to place a mobile home in that area would-have to come in with a plot plan. Keith Van Dine said.there had been some concern at one time about a possible mobile home park being constructed. Steve Simonson said he had talked with a Ms. Mitchell about that particular matter and had informed her that someone looking to build a mobile home park can't just come in and build, they must come before the Planning and Zozning Commission for approval first. Keith Van Dine had some ti about th bli hearing ques ons a ou epu c ear ng scheduled for March 3, 1987 and the Commission helped with the information he needed. ° ` ~ ` Bob Andrews informed Keith Van Dine that Schertz has a Volunteer Fire Department and would be glad to have people from his area offer their services, Steve Simonson mentioned that one thing the City is looking into for the future is taking Live Oak Road all the way through out to FM 1518. At this time there was a brief discussion on the AICUZ. Ken Greenwald' informed the Commission there is now an 800 toll free number in Austin you can call and check on the status of any bill in the legislature. The hours are 8:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M. Monday through Thursday and 8:00 A.M. to 5:OO P.M. Friday. You need either the subject and author or the bill number. The number is 800-252-9693. #7 ADJOURNMENT Chairman Yarling adjourned the meeting at 9:45 P.M. A Joint Public Hearing is scheduled for March 3, 1987. The next regularly scheduled meeting is March 10, 1987. -10-