11-22-1988
~ ~,A _
.PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES -
The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission convened ire a regular
session on Tuesday, November 22 1988 at 7:00 P.M. in the -
Municip~~l Complex Conference Room, 1400 Schertz Park~~a.~y. Those
present-were as follows: .
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION _ CITY STAFF
TY BRISGILL, CHAIRMAN - STEVE SIMONSON,
MERWIN WILLMAN ASST. CITY MANAGER
BOB ANDREWS NORMA ALTHOUSE,
GEORGE VICY' ~ RECORDING SECRETARY
JOE POTEMPA
KEA' GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN
MEMBERS 1-ABSENT
MARY MARSI3, VICE-CHAIRMAN
Y.EITH VAN DINE, SECRETARY
rr1 CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Brisgill called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.TMI.
~2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Regular Session :November 8, 1988
Merwin ttiiillman made a motion tc approve the minutes fcr the
z°egular session November 8, 19°O. Joe Petempa sec.cnd.~•~. ~-_h`,
mcticn and the vote was as fellows:
AY?~'S : M . Tv~'i 1 lman, B . Andrews , G . Vick, J . Pctempa
NAYS: None
rBSTE?~?TIONS: T. Brisgill
Mctior. carried.
~3 CsTTIZ??Z4S' I*3PUT ORDER THAN l-SGENDA ITEMS
There-was none.
rr~ CO\iSTiDE'_~ A-.~D TA~~ AP P~:OP12I11.`x.'E ACTIOR'~: Request frC~l ~'al:ljii~;..
Hcmes fc.r an Excepticn tc the Subdivision
Ordinance Allowing Circular Drives in
Greenshire Oaks Subdivision, Specifically at
Lct 1, Block 1, 2901 Greenshire and at Lot 24~,
Block 1, 2904 Bert Tree
Mark Vaughan was at the meeting to represent t31is request.
- Chairman Brisgill- asked fci- Staff input. Steve Si;r.~cns~n
commented the Staff sees no problem with a circular drive at 2901
Greenshire, but-they recommend disapproval of a circular drive at
2904 Bent Tree because you are coming out right against the
island'and it is a passible safety hazard.
George Vick asked if an ordinance; had been passed prohibiting
circular drives. Chairman Brisgill. replied"that is covered in
the. Code of Ordinances and given-though it doesn't particularly
say anything about circular: drives,-it addresses curb cuts. -
Chairman Brisgill observed that Greenshire Oaks is an upscale
developrient with large lots. NIr. Brisgill went on to say that
regarding a circular .drive at 2901 Greenshire, he would agree
with Steve Simonson exccr~t that:the driveway appears to cut into
the handicap facility. Steve Simonson then said, if it does .cut
into the handicap facility, they could not have that situation.
Chairman Brisgill remarl~ed that: at 2904 Bent Tree it looks like
th.er~'s a big tree at the end of~the dz~iveway. Mark Vaughan said
the drawing submitted was hypothetical, not an exact, but they
probably caould negotiate around the tree and they may need to
make some adjustments regarding the island situation.
Maz~k Vaughan sent en to sa~v he doesn't see wl~y there`s a problem
with a cis-cular driveway at 2904 Bent Tree and asked if the
Commission was saying if they had had a house there with a
garage, they wouldn't have allowed them to build the house.
Chairman. Brisgill said no, the Commission was rot saying that.
Merwir, Willman pointed out to Mark Vaughan they are as,~ir~g for
two- more curb cuts and there is already one there. Mr. titi~illman
said they ::cod to make a recommendation to City Council.
+ark Vazl.ghan reminded tre Commission they had also asked fo~~.
approval of circular drives in the entire Greenshire Oaks
Su~,•divisicn and he realizes they have tC go through the ~•equired
process for approval of this request.
Chairman Brrisgill commented he doesn't have a prob].e.~t caith
circular drives if there are proper procedures set up for them
and they fit into the area tit~itl~ the houses, trees, etc. ~°1r.
Brisgill suggested that maybe the Commission write up a
r(_'::CmT.~`;ridat~.Cn tC thy: C1'~y :~'Iallager regarding C11"~:Ular dricTes In
tl.e Green5l`ilre . OaiiS CCmm;lnltV .
Mervin 61~i].lrnan informed Mark Vaughan he will find this issue was
never addressed in an ordinance because it has never come up
before. Mr. Lvillman continued on, saying he sees :.o problem with
a circular drive at ?901 Greenshire, but there is a problem with
;:~e at 2904 Bent Tree because of the-possible safety hazard.
Steve Simonson noted that the inspectors are .very careful about
these kind of things. -
_ 2-- .
Mark Vaughan defended a circular drive at 2904 Bent Tree by
saying. there is no place for off-street parl~ing and th^ client
for whom the house is being .built would like for his visitors to
be able to come to the front door.
Ste-ve Simonson once again pointed cut it might be all right if it
didn't, come cut against the :island. -
Niark Vaughan stated he doesn't see this as a traffic hazaxd - it
is a slow traffic street and a real visible area. Mr. Vaughan
said it could -have been designed so the person is required to
bacl~ out of the driveway, which is even worse.
Mark .Vaughan said it is his suggestion an exception: to allow
circular driveways be granted for this entire subdivision and
then the inspectors -can look at the plans and inform the
developer of any_ problems.
Mervin Willman commented Planning and Zoning needs to address the
subject of circular drives as a separate deal from curl:; cuts.
Bob Andrews said we need to lock at it simultaneously - if there
is a circular drive, then there are additional curb cuts.
Steve Simonson wondered if, because of it's uniqueness, this area
would be eligible for a blanl~et eYCepticr. in regard tc circular
drives.
Bob Andrews indicated some kind cf recamn:er~dation to City Co~~;.ncil
mods to be made regarding the number of curb cuts req~~ested on
Let 24, Block 1 (2904 Bent Tree).
Ty Brisgi_ll gL?estioned if the z~ooc:umondatior. shouldn`t be made:> t.^.
the City Manager. Steve Si.::onson said technically the City
1`?anag~r can make a d.ecisicn cn curb cuts.
Bob Andrews made a motion to rec:;mmend approval to the City -
Council of the request from Vaug~.G.n EIcmes for a.n e~ce.i~i.^r~
ailoLaing circular drives at Lot 1, Black 1, 29()1 Gre~nshire and
Lot 24, Bloc k_ 1, 2904 Bent Trees= in the Gr.ecnsl2ire Oaks
Sul;divisicn with the understanding ail attempts will be made to
have u.n angle c•n the ingress/tigress at 2904 Bent Trees s:; vicehi.cl~s
may safely maneuver around the island.
The motl_on di:~d for lack of a second.
Mervin Willman requested mere information on the circular drives
at 2904 Bent Tree as to where it is going tc Dome cut.
TMTark Vaughan asked what is unsafe about a circular drive at 2904
Bent Tree. Chairman Brisgill answered that if you ba~~k cut in
front of -someone, there`s ro rajm to swerve.- ~1r. Brisgill said
he feels somothin; shcul~ be put in the motion ~~pressing -
ccncerns about the safety. _
_ _ - ~
_ -3-
Bob Andrews. :reminded the Commission they_ cannot ,say=_eve'ry
driveway has to` have roam, when pulling cut, not to miss an
oncoming car. Mr. Andrews said he does have some concerns abort.
the maneuverability of ingress/egress into and out of the
driveway and safely making a turn from Bent Tree .into the
dr~vec~ay and vice-versa. Mark Vaughan then asked. if they s'~ou.ld
be .submitting plans to the City Manager regarding garb c~izts<
Merwir. t~~illman made a motion to recar.,~mend tc the City Council _
approval of the request from Vaughan:~?cmes for an exception
allowing a circular drive at 2901 Greenshire and an exception
allowing a circular drive at 2904 Bent Tree, both in the
Greenshire Oal~s Subdivision, providing no safety hazard is
created by the curb cut an Bent Tree.
Bob Andrews seconded the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: T. Brisgill, M. Willman, B. Andrews, G. Vick
NAYS: J. Patempa
ABSTENTIONS: None
Motion carried.
#5 C4~~SII?B`~ AItiJ Tt'~~iE A3.'xg ®P~tIATE ~S.C':'aO~1?: Request frarn Vaughan
homes far an Exception to the Subdivision
Ordinance to AIIow Circular Drives in the
Greenshire Oaks Subdivision
CI^~airman Brisgill commented that in light cf the type cf
cammt~.r,ity the Vaughans are building, there ought to be same typo
of instrument devised to lot the City Manager and the inspectors
:ct an this request so the Va~ag~.ans can make circular drives part
of their r_ommunity.
Bob Andrews pointed out this is the third time this request has
come ~:efore Planning and Zoning - first a.s an ;_nfarmal request,
second as a fcrmal request and now this time. Mr. Andrews said `
he feels it.' should gc to Council. When Planning and Zoni..g makes
a decision the developer is in disagreement with, the dev~lop~r
is entitled tc taka his request t.o City Council.
Chuirr;~ar. Brisgill asked ca',.at is needed.
Cou:ioilr,:an Gre:~nreald remarked that he agrees c,~it?: part af_ the
ncticn whereby you let the City Manager and the inspectors take
care of it.
Mervin Willman said, technically, it could have gone to the City
Manager and -not Planni:~g and Zoning far tha curb cuts. Mr.
6tiillman said, in his opinion, it should go to the City Manager
and Planning and Zoning ~tiouldn't have to worry about it.
- Jce Potempa asked. why -Mark Vaughan- cane in tonight. _ -"1-r. Pctempa _
said he thought -the City Manager was going to make ~a
determination on the request.
_4_
Mark baughan answered this by saying he had bee:i told by-Don
Brodeur, City Inspector, that he had to come before Plahning~ard -
Zoning. Steve Simonson backed him :up saying t,hat's what he told
Don Brodeur because of previous similar requests from Vaughan
homes.
Bob Andrews made a motion that the request from Vaughan Homes-for -
an exception to the Subdivision Ordinance to allow ciictalar
- drives in Greenshire Oaks Subdivision be handled according to the
Code of~Ordinances 26.35 and 16.3°..
- Joe Pot~empa seconded the motion and the vote was 'unanimous in
favor .
Motion carried.
After the vote, Merwin Willman informed the Commissicn they may
have to come up with some Bind of termn~Iogy for larger lcts.
Bob Andrews asked if there is a recommended safe radii for
circular drives and nark Vaughan said he L,Tould think it the same
as that for a cul-de-sac.
C~~SIDE~R A.ERID 1"~KB P~C:'3~'~:B1~Dr=~TI4~~?: L7pdating cf City Plan
Chairman Brisgill commented he had read in th,:_ minutes of the
last meeting that everyone was supposed to bring a list of names
(recommendaticns tc serve on a panel of civic leaders) to this
meeting. Mr. Brisgill asked everyone if they had their Iist.
Bob Andrews z~espcnded by saying lie needed mere time. Mr. Andrews
said he had made up a list of ten, but upon calling each
x~nd~vzdual , found only c::e whc cti-o'uld ar ~e to St-~rve cn a pane' of
civic leaders,
Gecrge Vick remarked that he has his list, but he hadn't
contacted any of them, se he thought mayl.•e he should do that.
Merwin Willmar. stressed that he didn`t l~av~ a list - in his
oL~inion they don't need the czvlc leader panel to t'r~e do the work
of Planning and Zoning, they don't n~~~d ~ layer of bureaucracy.
Joe Potempa stated +_.lzat he has hi,s list.
Chairman Brisgill said he needs more time to ccmpile his list.
It was agreed that each Comrlissi.cn`r would l.;ring his list to the
next regularly scheduled. meeting.
Each Commissioner had r~CelVed a Copy= of ca Sample Survey preparL'd
by George ViCI<_ and Merwin Willman in Cooperation. witl: Steve
Simonson.
- -5-
C-h3irman Brisgill suggested they. look over the survey and bring
their.questicns about it to the next regular-ly scheduled meeting: -
Mr. Brisgill also requested that: discussion of the survey be
placed on the next agenda.
There was a brief discussion on distribution of the survey .with
:~erwin Willman telling the ,Commission that before they gc too
far, they should present their plan of action`and ary possible
cost tc City Council for -their cpini::n.
Councilman Ken Greenwald said he had given Council the outline of
the plan of action at the last caorkshcp and it is on their next
workshop agenda.
Merwin Willman emphasized that someone from Planning and Zoning
should attend that workshop ,and explain the plan of action to
City Council.
Steve Sirncnscr. thought it would be good if Ty Brisgill and Mary
Marsh and/cr Merwin ti~illman attended the worlrshcp to answer
questions.
Merwin Willman asked if anyone anticipates using a consultant to
he~.p with the process. Councilman Greencaaid said orie of the
questions regarding a consultant would be the cost.
Bob Andrews strongly reccmmcrded that Planning and Zoning have
some idea cf what the cost will be, rot only of a consultant, but
the overall cost of updating the City Plan such as the survey,
etc.
George Vick asked how many homes are ir. the City of Schertz and
:~teve Sir,cn.scn estimated ' , 000 to 3, -^~00. Mr. Vick the,.. asked how
m=.:C it c=~==1 CC h ~ }1 z s tr.
h ,~.,u~d st t.^ av~ ~.nc sum T ys printe,~ r r and S;~c:ve
Simonscr. said he would chc>cls on it.
Bob Andrews asked how the surveys are going tc be returned. Mr.
Andrews ` suggestion was a dre~: be<~:.
#7 G~14?BRA,T, BTSCdISSIt~I~
Steve Simonson merticned the comments he had enclosed in the
Commissions's packugcs regarding tl~e prospective b=aver cf some
larul located alor:g FM '18? and t~~e i1IiT Railroad cf which start is
i., cur City limits and part is ~;;utside our City limits. Mr.
Simonson said the prospective buyer is Larry Schuetz who was
questioning the platting of the pr_cpcrty and if he puts in a
mobile home subdivision, whether. cr not cae would. require streets
with curbs and gutters or would allow ~cuntry-type reads with bar
ditches for drainage.
Mr. Simonson said among score of the questions that arise are will
cac have to zone the propert~t and will -the mcbilL home subdivi-s ion
.have t~ be in accordance with the Mo'~,•iic Heme and the Subdivision
Qrdi.rlances .
- -6- -
Bob Andrews noted that we need to look at a lat. less e_~oeptians .
and a let more compliance with crdinances.
Also in regard to Stevc Simanscn's comments in the package,
Merwin Willman asked what prompted the following request frcz:~ the;
Inspecticn Department:
Please reconsider Camrciiss.ion`s prapase% change to Mcbi.le~ Home
Ordinance, Sectiar. ~I, Para. 8.2..g, "Design and I,ocaticn of
- Storage Facilities". (Minutes Sept. 13, ?9°E)
1. The propcs~:d maximum size cf 6' x 5' x (30 square feet) is
too small to be practical far the majority of tenants in
mobile hcme parks.`
Recommend a maximum size of 8' x 10.' x 8' be permitted. The
additicnai size should present nc problem ir, meeting': required
setback of four (4') meet Pram mobile Name.
2. The. requirement that door of storage building face rear of
lot shculd be eliminated; would not be practical in many
instances. (Example - stcrage building sitting at r%ar
property line<)
3. Because plar_e.nent of utilities (gas, electric) varies, actual
placement of building may need tc be altered frcm strict
enforcement in some cases.
Recommend inspectors have discreticn to re~Tiew and approve
location variations, as nec.^ssary, without tk:e need of
exception Pram the crdinance, always keeping ire mind the
i~,•asic premise f taic' regulaticns .
Steve Simansori informed Merwin ti~iiln;an the inspectors are dealing
caith the requests cL:t there and because cf the constraints ir. any
mobile Lome area, the i r.spectars have t-c measure distances any~ti~ay
wi-~er. a star age building is Bract%d.
It was pcir,.ted out that the ordinance says storage facilities may
be , not shall b^, located directly beh~r.d the r..~abile ?"iorle with
the doors facing th~~ rear of the lat.
S'4:~ve SrmanSOn i:uzi at~.~ It may Simply be a matter of
interpretation.
Merwin Willman had written up a draft for a subparagraph tc the
Mobile I-Iame Ordinance, Sec, ZI, Para. Ii.2.g. addressing the
Inspection Department`s request to allow storage buildings larger
in square footage.
It was ~er_ommended tl.is subparagraph be put an the agenda of the
next regularly sc::edul.cd r,~eeting e- _ _ -
-7- _
Mervin Wi.llma-n also brought up the following:
(a) Informed the Commission: there is an area of the new zoning
map marked for a Mobile I-Iome Park (Oak View Mobile Home Park)
which is illegal. Mr. !n'illman went on to say that in 29$3 alI
the l~a~~d then owned by the Chapparal Energy Corporation was zoned
:for G.enera_1 Business with a Specific Use Permit for a Mobile Home.
Park for throe years which 'has .expired. Mr. Willman said he
thinks Planning and Zoning should.lcck at this: and maybe zcrie it
for a Mobile Home District.
Chairman I;risgill asked why it rad been given ~a Specific Use
Permit and not a. non-conforming usd and Mervin Millman said it
was when the old ordinance was in .effect.
Chairman Brisgill asked if the Commissioners wanted this on the
next agenda. Councilman Greenwald suggested Steve Simonson
contact the property owners first.
tb) Commented he would like to recommend or ask City Council why
we don7t start filling in the areas for annexation up by the MYT
Failroad. (Councilman Greenwald replied they plan cn filling in
the areas, but they need to take a look first at the serv_ces
troy would be rerluired to provide.)
{c) Remind~.~~d the Commissioners of the meeting on land use at
Judson High School cr. December 7th.
(d) I~'hile readinr, the "Zoning Nerasl^tter" for October he thought
Cf r~, 151o south. Thev have a book available from the state of
M:~ssaohuse>_tts about newt concepts in land use and he would lil~:e tc;
get that bock.
(e ) Ask ed hora many Commissioners had copies cf tl~e AICUZ
r:-:gi:luticns .
(f ) Recommended an article about the Streets and Parlcs
Department`s chipper be in tho monthly bulletin.
Geo~"ge Vir_lr asked what they're doing tc the streets and Stevo
Si:aor.scn said the soal coating. George Vick then asked if it
includ^d alI the streets ar~d Steve Simonson they will have to
Soo, their dec~sicn was based an ago and ccndit?on of the streets
lr'iJC1VP_d.
George Viclr also asked again about the street light that`s out on
Aviation as you come up from the Iew water crossing. (Steve
Simonson said he had spoken with GVEC, but he will call again.)
Joe Pctempa reminded everyone cf the Christmas Tr:_e Lighting :,n
December 1st at 6:00 P.M.
-8-
~ ~ -
Joe. Potempa asked- if the State cr the.- City can put .up a sign on "
the IH-35 access road to indicatne -where Schertz Parkway is'-
lacated. (Steve Simonsan said he wauld check into it.)
Bob Andrews asked again about the reflectors on the access road
'at the entrance to IH--35_ and Steve Slmanson said he had, spoken
with the F-Iighway Department a.nd the1T said they wi13 try to:
~~pla ce the-~ . ?~cf l octets . .
Chairman Brisgill brought up the following:
(a) Cnzandered .if anyone had ever checked cn the required height
for fences around swimming pools. Mr. Brisgill pointed aut again
tl:e izcuse on the corner of Bent Tree- and I~lacdlancl Oaks where the
fence starts at appraximately 3 1/2` and then tiers up.
(b},tip cn I,M X82, there is a gravel truck parking just off LM
2252. Do they have tre proper permits?
(c) On dawn the road from c~ihere the gravel truck is parking,
there's a junk yard with a sign. "I~o Sales, Business Closed". Are
the inspectors atiaare cf this? (Steve Simonson said the
inspectors are in court with four out of five of the junl~yards
for r~cn-carferriance. )
(d) Had noticed in the minutes Mary Marsh's comments cn problems
with trailars still being par}red at the big ca}~ tree an Jack Hays
Blvd. and that the police said they couldn't ticket them ~~;.nless
the trailer Baas with the cab. Mr. Brisgill painted cut the
fallowing from page 1107 cf the Code Bock:
Ccrim:~z•cial vehicles in e<=ccss of 3/4 tan, recreational
vehicles, trailer houses, ca~aping trailers, livestock trailers,
::Cat"S anti Cat tYa1.EGrS G]" Jti1C=1" trailers Sliall nat r}:,`e '='"lred
, _
left standing or stored cn any City street, right-~f-r~Jay,
alleyway cr easement... This shall not restrict the parsing cf
commercial vehicles far the purpose of Icading.and unloading."
There was some discussion an whether the trailers were being
parked in a City right-of-wa.y.
Steve Si,^.~onsor. said they are trying to s,rite an erdina.~c:r-_' that:
tiaculd elimi:.ate all parking cn Jack ~Iays Blvd. from III-~5 to I'~I
7Q. {Chair-man Brisgill noted that he thinks that i.s aIr`.adY ir.
the Code cf Ordinances ire Sectian 1591, pages 1105 and 1106.}
Steve Simonson said he would. oboe}~. rota it.
Bab Andrews commented he had sicken with an owner wha protested
the way G:~adalupe Ca:znty appraises jun'.Kyards. Mr. Andrews said
lie was told they fly aver the area and count the cars. Mr.
A:~drews' qu~~sticn was if this revenua ..cmcs back tc the .City
There was a ,brief discussion.. with same people thinking t?~.at if
the :value =is determined by ~he _ nur.:b~r of "cal'-s; then- it is
probably assessed as personal p~~cperty tax. - -
-9- _
8 ABJ3TJRNMENT
Chairman°Brisgill adjourned the meeting at 8:48 P.M.
The nest regularly scheduled meeting is December 2~, 2988.
-10-