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04-03-2018 MinutesMINUTES REGULAR MEETING April 3, 2018 A Regular Meeting was held by the Schertz City Council of the City of Schertz, Texas, on April 3, 2018, at 6:00 p.m. in the Hal Baldwin Municipal Complex Council Chambers, 1400 Schertz Parkway, Building #4, Schertz, Texas. The following members present to -wit: Mayor Michael Carpenter Councilmember Mark Davis Councilmember Scott Larson Councilmember Angelina Kiser Staff Present: Executive Director Dudley Wait City Attorney Charles Zech Mayor Pro -Tem David Scagliola Councilmember Ralph Gutierrez Councilmember Cedric Edwards Councilmember Bert Crawford Acting City Manager Brian James Assistant to the City Manager Sarah Gonzalez City Secretary Brenda Dennis Call to Order — City Council Regular Session Mayor Carpenter called the regular meeting to order at 6:00 p.m. Mayor Carpenter announced if any student is in attendance this evening observing the meeting for the Hal Baldwin Scholarship, the sign -up sheet is in the vestibule; be sure to sign in if you are here for that purpose. Opening Prayer and Pledges of Allegiance to the Flags of the United States and State of Texas. (Mayor Carpenter) Recognition • Inspections — Building Inspector — James Bruce • Public Works Drainage — Drainage Worker I — Christopher Leos & William Sneed, Public Works Water — Service Man II — Donald Sarten, Service Man I — Moses Flores & Eric DiGiacomo Each supervisor came forward with their respective staff members and read a brief bio on each employee. Mayor and Council welcomed the new staff members aboard. Mayor Carpenter gave each employee an opportunity to say something. Presentations • Presentation regarding Movin on Main - April 8, 2018. (S. Gonzalez/L. Klepper/M. Spence) 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 1 - Mayor Carpenter recognized Public Affairs Director Linda Klepper and Events Manager Mary Spence who provided information on the upcoming event with the following highlights: • Event — Sunday April 8, 2018 12:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m. • Free Event, active event intended to bring the community out to bike run or stroll through Main Street - Showcases Main Street - Wellness/Fitness oriented - Family friendly - Partnership with the Schertz Family Y • Key elements - Local Retail Vendors ® Focus on Wellness and Fitness - Food Vendors - Kids Zone - Senior Zone - Live Demonstrations /Activities ® Zumba, Yoga, Body Combat, Baton Twirling, Karate, Jazzercise, Body Flow, Dance • Stage and activities - Bean bag toss - Potato sack races - Hula Hoop run - Bicycle Course - Jump Rope - Basketball Hoops - Aquatic Games - Soccer Kicks Football Toss • Main Stage Schedule 12:30 1:00 — Zumba 1 -1:30 Camp. Gladator 1:30 -2:00 Body Flow - 2:00 -2:30 Jazzercise - 2:30 to 3:00 Body Combat - 3:00 -3:30 Concrete Yoga - 3:30 -4:00 Zumba ® Senior Zone Schedule - 12:00 - 4:00 — Chair Volleyball - 12:30 - 1:00 Silver Sneakers - 1:30- 2:00 Zumba Gold 2:30 - 4:00 Silver Sneakers 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 2 - C®mmunaty ,Stage .Schedule 1:30 —1:55 Sweet Sensations - 2:10 — 2:35 Clemens Jazz Band - 2:45 -3:1- Mary Lou's School of Dance - 3:15 — 3:45 Kinderdance ® Lave Music Stage 12:00 — 4:00 Soulful Flow City Events and Announcements ® Announcements of upcoming City Events (B. James/D. Wait/S. Gonzalez) Mayor Carpenter recognized Assistant to the City Manager Sarah Gonzalez who provided the following announcements: Saturday, April 71 Nature Discovery Series - Discover What's Buzzing / Blooming 10:00 am Crescent Bend Nature Park Please call Ext. 1850 for more information. Registration is required. Sunday, April St' Movin On Main 12:00 Pm to 4:00 pm Schertz Main Street New to Schertz for the first time ever, this free, active event invites you to bicycle, play, stretch, jump, get fit, and celebrate healthy living. Fitness demos, exercise stations, cycle route, live music, health and wellness vendors, food and refreshments, and much more. Event partnered with the City of Schertz, the Schertz Family YMCA and the Schertz Parks and Recreation Tuesday, April 10' Ribbon Cutting Ceremony 5:00 pm Schertz Parkway and Live Oak Road — Celebrate the completion of the project. Announcements and recognitions by the Acting City Manager (B. James) Mayor Carpenter recognized Acting City Manager Brian James who stated that last week we received the jobless rate information for the area. The City of Schertz unemployment rate is 3.4% as determined by Workforce Solutions; this is the same for the metropolitan statistical area as well as the same rate for San Antonio and Seguin. Another item, as a reminder to Council, we have the Main Street meeting on Monday April 9, 2018 at the Schertz Civic Center. Announcements and recognitions by the Mayor (M. Carpenter) 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 3 - No announcements were provided. Hearing of residents Mayor Carpenter recognized the following individuals who spoke: ® Ms. Michele Tereletsky, 705 Marilyn Drive, who continued speaking to City Council regarding the First Amendment. She stated she doesn't think she is going to -get an answer from Council on this because she doesn't think they have one. It's really not about the First Amendment, it's about control. That is exactly what happened 7 or 8 months ago. Those thought they had control over someone's personal media. She does not believe they are going to be able to create regulations or codes that are enforceable to take against anyone on council or commissions to stop them from saying what they want to say unless it is liable, slander or threatening. That's the First Amendment. She stated that three people came up here and kept talking about the First Amendment, ten or fifteen came to talk about the situation this was involved in. You listened to three. One continues to try and smear a Councilmember on his personal social media. A Councilmember that won his election by 66% of the votes. That Councilmember is smart enough not to act. She has also observed that a Councilmember waits for that same Councilmember to say something so that he can immediately disagree with him. But he doesn't do it in a nice way. You can agree, or you can disagree, you can say what you want. She has no objection to what the three were saying other than one had a lie in his two -page speech. He can say what he wants to say, that's the First Amendment. That's what we live by and has been going on for 200 years. Ms. Tereletsky provided other examples of the First Amendment. • Ms. Penny Jennings, 2501 Hourless Oak, who first thanked the council for everything they do. She thanked Councilmember Davis who sat with a bunch of citizens who were upset over the situation with Mr. Kessel. She appreciated that he took the time and it meant a lot to them. She continued stating the City of Schertz is a great place and appreciates all the events; Movies in the Park, the Nature Discovery Series, and Shred Day that they put on. She also wanted to bring attention to Maggie who works for The Chamber, she appreciates all the events she puts on for the City, the Health and Wholeness Fair, The Taste at Retama Park, Schertz Meet the Candidates and others. She stated that Maggie puts in a lot of work and her heart and soul into doing these events. All these events that the city puts on and the Chamber, all residents enjoy these events. Ms. Jennings also stated that they are still having problems out on Belmont Parkway with tons of traffic, speeders, and problems with cars not stopping to allow those to cross over on the crosswalk. She knows the city is aware of the problems and have been working on it. She wanted to know if there is something the city could put in place for those trying to cross over the street on the crosswalk for traffic to stop. Ms. Jennings also inquired as to transportation for our disabled seniors, for the ones that do not drive. She stated that there is not a bus route for the City of Schertz and she would like the City to look into this as a possibility. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 4 - Mayor Carpenter stated that Mr. James can provide some information regarding transportation services through AACOG and provide an update on what TSAC may have as they have visited this subject on public transportation over the last couple of years. Acting City Manager Brian James stated that AACOG has an on -demand service that provides transportation in our city for this reason but there is a cost. As the Mayor mentioned we looked at public transportation a couple of years ago and it was recently brought up again by another councilmember, so we are going to go back to TSAC in May to revisit and have discussions on whether we are ready to take another step forward on this. Whether it's a deviated route like Seguin or a once a week route from a specific location, we are looking at trying to grow the system. Mr. James also stated that she could talk to Executive Director Dudley Wait on an update of what we have talked about regarding the Belmont Parkway and Riatta area traffic problems. Ms. Maggie Titterington, who stated that The Chamber has received their Accreditation; not only Accredited, but they are a Three Star Accredited Chamber of Commerce. That means they are the top 3 Chambers in the United States. She mentioned this took 2 years and her team made it happen. Ms. Titterington also stated that if you come to The Chamber they have a sign that Mayor Hal Baldwin had painted that says Lower Valley, it was painted before he was Mayor. She was also able to get some of the old school's chairs and other small artifacts; there will be a display in The Chamber honoring the old Lower Valley School house. Ms. Titterington read a letter she received from one of their members who wishes to remain anonymous. She knows that last week Mr. Outlaw had made some comments on things that were said with so much going on. Our City is an awesome city and a great city to do business in. We have a council that cares, we have city officials that care. We may not always agree, and we agree to disagree, but she knows there has been a bit of contention and out of respect for the member they will stay anonymous. Ms. Titterington read the letter addressed to the city council from a small business owner desiring to work with them and who is grateful for the council participation, expressing gratitude. She expressed concerns regarding differences that could affect their business moving forward. Ms. Titterington stated that with this business and others what they are saying is that they want to get to know you and build trust, and it is from the trust that's built that then that feeling disappears. Seeing you only on the dais can be intimidating; how can they get to know you. There are several events sponsored by The Chamber and attending these is a way they can get to know each of you. They just want to get to know you and build the trust and then those feelings they have will go away. Mayor Carpenter congratulated Ms. Titterington on the Accreditation and was thrilled that she was able to get the sign that Mayor Baldwin painted many yeas ago. For those that did not know, Mayor Baldwin did graphic design work and developed signs of that nature during his career in the military. This is a legacy of his personal work; he appreciates that it was saved and is available now as history for the city. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 5 - Mayor Carpenter stated that the Council had a need for closed session this evening and read the following: Closed Session 3. City Council will meet in closed session under section 551.071 of the Texas Government Consultation with the City Attorney regarding pending or contemplated litigation. ® SSLGC vs. Clean Green Inc. (Post Oak Landfill) Mayor Carpenter convened into closed session at 6:3 6 p. m. Reconvene into Regular Session Mayor Carpenter reconvened into regular session at 7:15 p.m., and he moved back to the workshop items. No action was taken for Item 3. Workshops Councilmember Edwards arrived at 7:17 p.m. ® Continuation of the discussion regarding Phase II Parks fees (YMCA). (B. James/L. Shrum) Mayor Carpenter recognized Parks Director Lauren Shrum who provided a Power Point presentation regarding the YMCA fees with the following highlights: Membership Breakdown by Residency — Total of 3,909 membership units (15,000 people) -- Schertz Residents — 2,436 membership units -- Cibolo Residents —1,473 membership units Corporate Membership Rates: - Efficient way for the YMCA to market and gain members -Some companies handle all of the recruitment and administration, so it is advantageous for the YMCA -The Corporate YMCA office negotiates each rate individually with the corporation and they all vary -Most corporations are paying a portion of their employee's rate (health insurance premium discounts) -This brings down the cost for everyone Corporate Membership Breakdown -City of Schertz — 144 membership units (Rates are 50% of regular rates) - SCUCISD — 565 membership units (Rates are 50% of regular rates) -A handful of membership units from CPS Energy, AT &T, etc. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 6 - Corporate Rates: City of Schertz – Adult $24, Family I N /A, Family II $41 SCUCISD - Adult $25, Family I $39, Family H $45.50 Regular Rates: Resident – Adult $50, Family I $78, Family II $91 Non- Resident -- Adult $51, Family I $80, Family II $93 Ms. Shrum and Acting City Manager Brian James addressed questions and comments from Mayor and Councilmembers. Mayor Carpenter suggested that on a future agenda council should start the conversation from a philosophical view and have a discussion on what is our real goal with the facilities we have today. Staff could brief them on all the facilities we have and compose a list of all our assets and what do we wish to do with them. Where do we want to be with this in 5 to 10 years from now? Mayor Carpenter instructed the City Secretary to put an item on the next available agenda or whenever staff has had sufficient time to gather more data such as a list of assets, an overview of the agreements we have with the various organizations that are running things for us, samples of evaluation work done in the past, why the YMCA, why would we not operate things ourselves, and associated costs. Let's put this in front of council and have a conversation of what the future should look like and what we are doing now. We probably need to come up with a set of definitive statements and goals as to what we want recreation to look like in Schertz in the short-term, mid -term and long -term. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Crawford who asked if someone could give council a life cycle on the assets we have leading towards where we are going to need to spend money now, three years or five years —to have a plan so we know what is coming down the road and we can think ahead. Discussion regarding Civic Center and Magazine Fees. (S. Gonzalez/L. Klepper/M. Geedman) Mayor Carpenter recognized Public Affairs Director Linda Klepper who provided a Power Point presentation with the following highlights: The Schertz Magazine Advertising Fees and Civic and Community Centers Rental Fees are reviewed and/or updated annually. The magazine is a major communication tool with our residents and provides local businesses a place to advertise their services. The reason for the advertising fees is to partially offset costs for production without negatively impacting the quality or expectations of our residents. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes page - 7 - For FY 2016 -17, revenues were $186,000 and expenses were $301,041. The magazine advertising fees range from $2,950 to $300 (for 6 months) and from $2,700 to $275 (12 months) dependent upon what page it is on and the size of the advertisement. City staff reviews fees from a variety of other cities /publications with similar type of services. However, it is difficult to compare as the Schertz Magazine is unique. It is wholly owned and operated by the city and is produced internally by Public Affairs. Staff recommends that we maintain the current ratio of ads to content (20 -30% ads) and also maintain current fees as an affordable way for local businesses to advertise their services to our Schertz residents. The city operates a civic center and community centers. This offers residents, businesses and the public a place to gather for events, celebrations and meetings. The reason for fees is to offset a portion of costs for maintenance and operations of the facilities. For FY 2016- 17 revenues were $267,999 and expenses were $472,895. Fees are set by reviewing our fees against other nearby facilities in order to remain competitive in the area. We also compare offerings of facilities and look at the level of services provided. Prices for renting the facilities range from $100 to$1,800. Things that affect the prices are the day of the week/weekend, half /full day, whole building or just one room, and location of the facility (Civic Center, Community Center North, etc.). There are also additional charges for amenities such as a portable bar, dance floor, stage, A/V, kitchen use, security. • Update regarding the JLUS /Land Use. (B. James) Mayor Carpenter recognized Acting City Manager Brian James who provided a Power Point presentation with the following information. Mr. James stated as a reminder, the issue we have is with the last update of the JLUS there were some changes made. Of particular significance was a significant change in the recommended land use density for residential within the area south of Randolph; the clear zones APZI and APZII. Residential was not in the old JLUS nor is it currently recommended within those areas. Most of the zoning of those areas is general business. The change was in the APZII's and the area in between the APZ's to go from two units per acre (1/2 acre lots) to a much, much lower density. Staff had proposed as the first step to say we need to amend our future land use plan and our comprehensive plan and to say we are doing something different than before. We were proposing that designation of air insulation impact which was fairly similar to what we used to have a number of years ago (8). We changed it to allow for more flexibility and now with the new JLUS we are sort of going back to what we had. The real issue is that reference would be to look to the JLUS study with regard to residential density. The change in land use is indicative of densities which would drop substantially. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 8 - Primary change in the 2015 JLUS — in Accident Potential Zone II from 2 residential units per acre to one unit per 20 acres in the east APZ II and one unit per 10 acres in west APZ II and the area between the APZ I and APZ II south of Randolph. Community meetings were held on May 25, 2017 and August 15, 2017 to discuss proposed changes. The most significant issue discussed was proposed density change — going forward how large must new lots be to subdivide property. RAFB subsequently indicated they would be comfortable with new lots needing to be a minimum of five acres, so if the property is less than ten acres it could not be subdivided. An update to City Council was on September 12, 2017. On October 25, 2017 an Air Installation Compatible Use Zone Study was done for JBSA- Randolph and Seguin Auxiliary Airfield). This is generally a military document and the JLUS is community driven. With this came a slight adjustment to noise contours (residential still discouraged). Note that due to the high - volume trainer operations and the significant threat of bird/wildlife strike to pilot safety at JBSA- Randolph, more restrictive density and land use regulations are necessary, especially for future development within the southern areas. Most of the area we are speaking of are zoned Residential AG (RA). The lack of sewer is a problem and likely we will not grant waivers for those. We do need to deal with this so property owners know, developers know, and Randolph knows what direction we are going in and what the regulations are. Whatever direction we go would involve 1) amending the Comprehensive Land Use Plan language and map to reference the updated JLUS, 2) creating (amend UDC) a Overlay District for Air Installation Impact Area, and 3) amend the zoning map to zone areas in APZ Its and in between APZs south of Randolph to be covered by the overlay district. To frame the issue: Determining appropriate residential densities in areas south of JBSA Randolph — balancing recommendations of military with property owner rights to determine appropriate uses based on compatibility and safety. Next Steps? — Another public input meeting or a normal public hearing process. Mr. James continued addressing questions and comments from Council. Mayor Carpenter stated that agenda items 1 and 2 are self - explanatory and with no objections he moved from the Chair that items 1 & 2 be placed on a consent agenda, seconded by Councilmember Edwards. The vote was unanimous with Mayor Pro -Tem Scagliola, Councilmembers Davis, Gutierrez, Larson, Edwards, Kiser and Crawford voting for and no one voting no. Motion Passed. Mayor Carpenter read the following captions as now these were placed on a consent agenda: 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 9 - 1. Minutes — Consideration and/or action regarding the approval of the minutes of the Special Budget Retreat meeting of March 23, 2018 and the Regular meeting of March 27, 2018. (B. James/B. Dennis) 2. Resolution No. 18 -R -37 — Consideration and/or action approving a Resolution authorizing the Acting City Manager to enter into an agreement with Southwest Texas Regional Advisory Council (STRAC) to provide Mobile Integrated Healthcare (MIH) inside the Schertz EMS Service area. (D. Wait/J. Mabbitt/K. Burnam) The following was read into record: Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Edwards who moved seconded by Councilmember Crawford to approve the consent agenda items 1 & 2. The vote was unanimous with Mayor Pro -Tem Scagliola, Councilmembers Davis, Gutierrez, Larson, Edwards, Kiser and Crawford voting for and no one voting no. Motion Passed. Mayor Carpenter moved back to the workshop agenda. • Discussion regarding a proposed Ordinance authorizing a Franchise Agreement with Guadalupe Valley Electric Cooperative. (D. Wait) Mayor Carpenter recognized Executive Director Dudley Wait who stated it is time to renew this agreement. It was a 20 -year agreement. We discovered that another community in the county had sought and received an increase (from 2% to 3 %) in their franchise fee that GVEC pays us. Mr. Wait expanded on how these fees work. GVEC was receptive and told management to provide a proposal they could submit to their board. Mr. Wait also provided samples of a few bills from CPS and GVEC and how they differ. He also provided some calculation differences for 2015, 2016, and 2017. He said staff is here today to get a consensus from Council as to their thoughts on how staff should finalize the GVEC agreement. Then they will bring it back for their vote to renew the agreement. Mr. Wait addressed comments and questions from Council. Roll Call Confirmation City Secretary Brenda Dennis provided the roll call votes for items 1 and 2. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 10 - Discussion, consideration and/or action clarifying the City Charter, specifically Section 4.07 Prohibitions (Interference with administration) and the appropriate interactive relationship with the City Secretary. Mayor Carpenter deferred to Councilmember Larson to start the discussion since this item had been requested by him. Councilmember Larson stated that he wanted to establish some clarity as he believes there had been a wide variety of interpretations amongst members. As they have participated in workshops and held group conversations, it is clear that there is a great deal of interaction between council members and city staff members, which may be appropriate. However, we should ensure it is indeed in alignment with our city charter. Regardless, he would like confirmation what the prohibitions are. To clarify, he is not speaking only to giving orders. Clarification is needed because, for example, essentially the City Secretary is under the direct supervision of the City Manager. Based on the charter then, their interaction with her would be limited. Councilmember Edwards stated he generally does not get involved in city affairs. He feels that the city manager and/or those other staff members that do report directly to council would come to council and advise them of any issues that may occur. However, the charter does also have a provision allowing for investigations if needed. Councilmember Larson stated he is not singling anyone out and saying they did something inappropriate. His question is, has any member of Council had a one on one meeting with a member of the city staff without getting direct permission from the city manager? Has anyone given orders or instruction directly to the city manager or city secretary without going through the city manager? If the answer to either of those questions is yes, then his interpretation is yes, you have violated the prohibitions in the city charter. He just wants clarification of what the prohibitions are actually saying. Mayor Carpenter spoke, reading from Section 6.06. The final sentence in that section says `the city secretary shall report administratively to the city manager but may be removed from office only by the city council.' This is not clear, what does `report administratively' really mean?' Is the removal from office the only portion of supervision they have entered into as council? This has been addressed before over time and discussed before. Each member of council might have diverse ideas on what `reports administratively' means. Councilmember Crawford stated the city secretary supplies administrative support not only to the city manager but also to council, and council does her evaluation. From his point of view the charter gives the city manager the right to be involved with the city secretary to get the day to day work done. Councilmember Davis stated he still has notes from the last Charter Review Commission. To his recollection, the city secretary was to report to the city manager administratively 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 11 - primarily because of the HR issue (time, attendance, approving leave, etc.). This is because City Council does not typically have that much day to day contact with the city secretary. Section 4.07 deals with city staff in general. The intent was that the city staff has one boss (city manager), that they should not get any direction from the city council `to go do something'. That should be vetted through the city manager. A phrase being left out here as we keep on quoting 6.06 is `The City Secretary shall be the custodian of the official seal of the city and shall have other such duties and powers prescribed in this charter and by the city council.' So, the city council can assign duties and powers to the city secretary. As he recalls, the day to day HR stuff, (time, attendance, etc.) - -- it is not efficient to have the Mayor or Councilmember have to attend to this. However, duties, can come from the city council. In reference to the Charter, it is a living document and subject to interpretation and review, either by a voter referendum, an action from this Council, or by a Charter Review Commission. He stated ultimately, the decision would be, does the city secretary work for the council or the city manager, like all the other employees. Mayor Carpenter stated a challenge they have with 4.07c and 6.06 is a statement made in our Code of Ethics which says, `Any member of council giving individual instruction or making a demand of the city manager, city attorney, or city secretary or city judge or judges or any member of staff with exceptions of times of emergency lawfully declared by the mayor..... shall be deemed to have violated the ethics codes. Mayor Pro -Tem Scagliola stated he does not see the' gray area.' We as a Council do not administer. The city manager does and establishes policies and under that a guideline the city secretary should follow. She works at the will and pleasure of council. Through a consensus, as a council we become an entity, but not as individuals. This goes back to the 4.07 clause, the way we conduct ourselves with the city secretary and anyone else in the city; we should be consistent under those guidelines, except for the purpose of inquiries. This has been his guideline —all along. This is also his first amendment right —to be free to ask a question and he can inquire to anyone in this city. If he needs something specific, then he goes to the city manager. Basically, he does not see the gray area, if we abide by the language in the charter right now. Councilmember Edwards stated he would like to think if anyone was coming into the city secretary office inquiring or bothering them that she would let council know. City Secretary Brenda Dennis affirmed that she would. With that said, Councilmember Edwards made a motion to end debate on this discussion. Councilmember Crawford seconded the motion. Mayor Carpenter stated this requires 2/3 vote to pass. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Larson who stated he moved to end debate but he doesn't understand why there would be any reason to end discussion. He understands some people don't believe there is any gray areas, but he believes by asking three questions he can prove that there are gray areas. Perhaps this particular issue has struck a nerve if there is a desire to end this discussion so aggressively. He didn't mean to 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page -12 - strike a nerve, but it makes him even more curious as to why. Maybe we need to spend more time discussing it so we can get to a point where we are not ashamed to discuss it. Councilmember Edwards said he would withdraw his motion if they can agree that is the case in Section 6.02 and we have a charter review committee formed and the section where it says the city secretary shall report administratively to the city manager but may be removed from office only by the city council - -- strike that out completely and just have her report directly to the city manager. This was on the charter review before, and we all said we were not going to let that happen. The mayor was unsure of the condition under which Councilmember Edwards would withdraw his motion, as it was somewhat complex. Therefore, Councilmember Edwards simply withdrew the motion so council could continue to debate. Mayor Pro -Tem Scagliola said he was in sync with Councilmember Edwards to terminate this discussion. Fundamentally, it is nearly impossible to disprove something that isn't correct to begin with. So how do you continue with a debate that really doesn't need to be taking place. Apparently, there isn't a problem, and he doesn't see it. Mayor Carpenter stated he could see this conversation going into a place on a video public record that won't do the city any good. However, if there is ambiguity or concern, then it merits discussion. He asked if Council felt a need to revisit the Charter, particularly with Sec. 6.06? And do we need to address the language therein? Councilmember Edwards stated a few years ago they asked these same questions, and council decided then that was not the route they wanted to take. He still stands by that. Councilmember Larson restated his belief that there still is some gray areas. The city secretary is unique in that there are times where one on one interaction can occur. This is not the case in other positions. He didn't bring this item up for any suspected violations but rather for further clarity. Mayor Carpenter spoke about the role of the city secretary as being the caretaker of the records of the city, the city seal, putting the agenda together and all those things that are germane to running the city. As defined by this council, what is the appropriate role of the office of the city secretary? If we want this office to be doing administrative tasks for us then maybe we should staff that office appropriately —and that is at the desire of council. He does think there is a lack of congruence amongst 6.06, 4.07c and our ethics codes and we do need to make that clearer. Councilmember Davis stated he doesn't think there is a problem with 6.06 (Chapter 6) Article 6 or Article 4. He agrees that where her duties are defined, staffmg needs to be appropriate. He thinks the problem is the wording in the Code of Ethics. He described his dialogs with city management and how that could indirectly turn into a request for something (i.e. a document/data, etc.) He has full confidence in the City Manager and City Secretary positions to tell him whether they can fulfill any request or not. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 13 - Mayor Carpenter spoke and provided examples of routine inquiries or requests for assistance versus demands for action not authorized. Councilmember Larson stated he was not accusing anyone of inappropriate behavior. He is simply saying there is a delineation. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Edwards who moved seconded by Councilmember Crawford to end debate. Mayor Carpenter called for ayes and nays. The ayes were in the majority. Motion Passed. Mayor Carpenter stated as a reminder to Council that the Charter says that all votes will be roll call votes except for matters that are procedural in nature. So, as there may be other procedural votes in the future he will at those times call for ayes and nays in lieu of the regular roll call vote. Discussion and consideration regarding interactions between Councilmembers and employees for purpose of clarifying and setting boundaries consistent with Section 4.07 Prohibitions (Interference with administration). Mayor Carpenter stated they have covered a lot of this in the item above. He will reread the ethics code which makes it clear. In his opinion, the code is concise and clear. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Larson who said he thinks this is a very different conversation than the one prior to it. What kind of conversations can he have with a staff person without going through the city manager first? What's an inquiry? Can I just approach an employee and ask for information about their last performance review? What did your manager do yesterday? To what level are these questions appropriate? If it is all clear and appropriate, then tell me and I'll be done. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Davis who stated he thinks we are splitting hairs here. He provided an example of his interaction with a Parks staff member sometime back to report a situation that needed attention at one of the parks. Mayor Carpenter provided some history of the instructions of a prior city administrator where council could not even have a conversation with any of the staff who reported to him. The opposite end of that is where everything is wide open, and it is utter chaos. Somewhere in the middle lies a point of equilibrium. This is what we are conversing about and we may be splitting hairs to some degree. Councilmember Edwards stated smart people tend to put smart people around them and he thinks that is what we have done. He doesn't know who is interfering or how many. He doesn't know who asked for this item to be on the agenda, but he can say `stay in your lane.' Councilmember Larson stated he is only trying to have an intelligent conversation about our charter, so we don't run into some of the same issues we have experienced in the past. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page -14 - We have had people who have said there have been employees showing up at their offices spreading rumors and talking about things happening that they couldn't tell us about. Other people have met with city employees who have made accusations against other city employees and they said they can't say who that is. This rumor mongering and festering and interaction with council and city employees is unhealthy and unprofessional and not in accordance with the nature of the charter. It is also not appropriate interaction and perhaps that is why this conversation is being mocked and it shines a light and the cockroaches are starting to scatter. The reality is that there is anecdote after anecdote of people who have admitted behind closed doors of having inappropriate conversations with city employees and then not divulging who the employee was or what the basis of the conversation was. This makes it very clear that there is an inappropriate relationship that is bypassing the city manager which is in violation of the city charter. So, if you don't want to have conversations about those conversations, and if you want to end debate on it, he will vote for it. The reality is there is definitely a gray area between what is appropriate action between council and staff and what is not. This is not a trivial matter that doesn't have an impact on the city going forward. There are definitely some red flags about how some councilmembers have been interacting with some employees of the city staff and we either need to say that is okay and change the charter or say it is not okay and not do it anymore. Mayor Carpenter stated if members of the council (one or more, it's immaterial), have acted in the past in violation of 4.07c., it's fair to say, that at this time, the entire body is on notice. We have clarified what is appropriate and inappropriate here in our discussion and moving forward, if there are any violations, they will have to be dealt with. He doesn't think we need to start an Article IV investigation. If members yield that others have acted inappropriately, then we need to have that public discussion. In his mind, everyone should have a clear understanding of what is appropriate and inappropriate under 4.07c and the ethics codes and we shouldn't have any issues moving forward whether or not we had any issues in our past. He asked council if anyone had any misgivings or questions about 4.07c, 6.06 or the ethics codes. Councilmember Kiser addressed Councihnember Larson who previously stated that some councilmembers had gone into closed sessions and had admitted to having inappropriate conversations. She does not recall any member sitting on this dais that went in and said I had an inappropriate conversation. To clarify, there are times when an employee has stopped us at HEB, a dental office (etc.) and said, `I would like to tell you this.' Should we then tell them we can't talk to them because they are a councilmember? She is not inquiring, she is not directing -- -but there are sometimes when a staff member or resident addresses them and tells them something. They are not directing or telling them to do anything and to say that is inappropriate is wrong. Typically, she doesn't even ask any questions when she is approached. That is not an inappropriate conversation. Mayor Carpenter stated he agreed that if a staff member wanted to speak to a council member and make them aware of something, that is not problematic, nor should it ever be. However, if the councilmember feels they need to act upon it, then they should go to the city manager with it. What matters is how council, as professional electives handle the provided information. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page - 15 - Mayor, Council, and City Attorney Charles Zech exchanged thoughts and questions as to the definitions and proper procedures in regard to making inquiries with a staff member. Mr. Zech said that there are two definitions; asking for information and an official investigation. His point earlier was that it is two different contexts. The first is to him the `asking of a question' (4.07c). The second (4.10) is the `official investigation. Mayor Carpenter stated with 4.07c, the safest route, is to just ask the city manager. Councilmember Gutierrez stated he didn't know where these workshops were going until a Councilmember enlightened him as to what occurred recently. What is a reasonable inquiry? Certainly not looking at departments for the past five years where you have three reams of paper that you use up. That is not a reasonable inquiry that is an investigation. We do have to set limits to ourselves. There were issues that were brought up in closed session. To Councilmember Larson's defense, he agrees with him. We have to set some boundaries. The city secretary cannot continue to do everything that we inquire about whether it is in the past three months or past five years. It is not reasonable. What was the purpose? We have to set some limitations. What is a reasonable inquiry? Council needs to define itself. We cannot be dealing in the day to day operations of the city. We have to set a vision of what we want the city to be. Mayor Carpenter stated this probably leads to another discussion of what is the proper role and body of work that is germane to the office of the city secretary? In larger cities there are inquiries made by council members that can tie up entire departments and it does. Some are ridiculous, and others are well founded. We have to find a solid balance. Part of this discussion we are having is a growing pain. Let's recognize that each question asked here will drive us to a better outcome. We should stop and come back and talk about this again on a future date. Mayor Carpenter convened into closed session at 10: 42 p. m. Closed Session 4. City Council will meet in closed session under section 551.074 of the Texas Government Code, Personnel Matters to deliberate the appointment, employment, evaluation, reassignment, duties, discipline, or dismissal of the City Manager. Reconvene into Regular Session Mayor Carpenter reconvened into regular session at 11: 38 p.m. 4a. Take any action based on discussions held in closed session under Agenda Item 4. No action was taken. Requests and Announcements 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page -16 - ® Announcements by the Acting City Manager. No further announcements were provided. ® Requests by Mayor and Councilmembers that items be placed on a future City Council agenda. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Crawford who asked if the closed session item regarding the search for a new City Manager could be placed back on the agenda for next week. Mayor Carpenter asked the City Secretary to provide this item on future agendas moving forward until they say they are complete with their discussions. City Secretary Brenda Dennis acknowledged his request. ® Announcements by Mayor and Councilmembers • City and community events attended and to be attended • City Council Committee and Liaison Assignments (see assignments below) • Continuing education events attended and to be attended • Recognition of actions by City employees • Recognition of actions by community volunteers Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Gutierrez who thanked the Schertz Bank and Trust staff who held their Re -Grand Opening Ribbon Cutting recently. They have been serving the community for 100 years. Also, the Lions Club held their Easter Egg hunt this past Saturdayit was a great turnout. The Senior Center had their Easter luncheon and he thanked the Knights of Columbus for providing the meal. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Larson who stated he has been appointed as an alternate for the Technical Advisory Committee on AAMPO —his first meeting is this week and he will try his best to represent Guadalupe County well. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Edwards who stated the Lions Club Easter Egg Hunt was great-750 children participated. Several young people were also fitted for eyeglasses. They have been doing this for years and the event is free of charge. A new category is being added to this event to address kids with disabilities. He also mentioned a compliment he received via e -mail regarding Building Official Gilbert Durant —the e -mail was forwarded to Acting City Manager Brian James. He also wanted to thank Marshals Division Ernest Spradling who has assisted him with some circumstances surrounding his building/landlord. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Crawford who said his HOA had their Easter egg hunt on Saturday the Police canine unit came and many residents spoke with the handler and enjoyed themselves. EMS also came but then had to go on a call. The Fire Department came and gave out information and hats and were there the entire time. He extended his thanks to all the city staff for their time. 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page -17 - Mayor Carpenter congratulated Police Chief Michael Hansen as KENS 5 TV Channel chose Cross -Hare as the winner of the unofficial April Fools Day competition. The AAMPO had their executive committee meeting/full meeting a week ago Monday. The funding for the entire FM 1518 project was approved and we will now be able to move this forward as a single project. He thanked everyone who may have helped in getting this accomplished. Mayor Carpenter recognized Councilmember Davis who said the Love Where You Live volunteer group will be tackling another project in the Pecan Grove subdivision this Saturday. 5. Information available in City Council Packets - NO DISCUSSION TO OCCUR ® Update information from the Committee of Committees Advisory Commission (CCAB). (B. James /S. Gonzalez) ® Update information regarding the Easter Egg- stravaganza. (B. James /L. Shrum) ® Update on progress of major City projects. (D. Wait) Adiournment As there was no further business, Mayor Carpenter adjourned the meeting at 11:44 p.m. Michael R. Carpenter, Mayor ATTEST: Bren/aDen iS, City Secretary 04 -03 -2018 Minutes Page -18 -