ccswks 07-23-1997SPECIAL WORKSHOP SESSION OF THE CITY COUNCIL
JULY 23, 1997
The Schertz City Council convened in Special Workshop Session
on Wednesday, July 23, 1997 at 7:00 p.m. in the Council
Chambers of the Municipal Complex, 1400 Schertz Parkway,
Schertz, Texas. The following members were present: Mayor
Hal Baldwin, presiding; Councilmembers Joe Potempa; Timothy
Swinney; Ken Greenwald; and Charles McDonald. Absent:
Councilmember Norman Agee, Sr.. Staff present were City
Manager Kerry Sweatt and Deputy City Secretary Dolores Butler.
Mayor Baldwin called the meeting to order and suggested since
we're meeting in the Council Chambers, he would ask everyone
to rise and join in the Pledge of Allegiance.
#1 HEARING OF RESIDENTS
George Mower said he had been asked to inquire, and his
curiosity is overwhelming, about the Cibolo Creek backup. It
has been circulated that the lower end of Cibolo Creek was
impeded so that the water could not get out at the rate it was
coming in at the top (June flood). Mr. Mower wants to know
if there is an investigation and make the findings public.
Mayor Baldwin advised Mr. Mower the city has an engineering
firm looking at the channeling and documents the engineering
company Beck Concrete used to develop the dike and they
haven't reported back to us as yet. Yes, there is an
investigation ongoing. In response to Mr. Mower's question
regarding publicizing the findings, Mayor Baldwin affirmed it
would be made public.
#2 ENGINEERING REPORT:
Mr. Sweatt stated city staff has met with the representatives
of Berry Creek and found them very cooperative with intent to
resolve this issue. Several very practical solutions have
been discussed, some having questionable legal and engineering
responsibilities that need to be explored. In no instance has
anyone refused to furnish information in the course of getting
to the bottom of this issue. As a result of that, our
suggestions and recommendations to council tonight is, that
after you hear some technical information from both Mr. Ford
and Mr. McCrary, that council accept the developers offer to
make a temporary arrangement to assure that there is no water
passing from the back of those lots at Berry Creek onto those
affected lots in Woodland Oaks, to set up a meeting tomorrow
with representatives of these homes, members of council, legal
staff and engineers to discuss at least two (2) very good
solutions.
Dan Kossl with Berry Creek development stated he was glad to
be back and was confident that everyone has been very honest
and earnest in an attempt to find a solution to the drainage
problems in Woodland Oaks. We have looked at various
scenarios, some better than others and every alternative we've
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looked at has some other implications, there are some
potential ramifications to other citizens. There is no
solution that perfectly solves this problem. Other problems
may be minimal compared to these resident's experience and
that may be the direction we want to go. We feel it incumbent
on ourselves (hope you feel the same way) that we look at this
from all angles, that we don't solve a problem and create
another by doing so. We are concerned with today's litigious
society that we all go in with our eyes open. Our request is
to form a small committee with representation from homeowners,
engineers and city staff, so that everyone can see what we
have found out and what the potential risks are. As a
temporary measure, we would like to put some hay bales with
some stakes in them along the area by Mr. Condor's house to
pull any water back that might get in there in the next few
days and regrade some of that so we don't concentrate any
flows. Regarding a comment concerning slab elevations, the
intent is not to fill the lot, it is pretty much going to stay
at that grade, with topsoil. If anyone has any questions, he
will be available to answer them.
Don McCrary stated, without getting into a lot of
technicalities, he would like to make a couple of brief
comments. - ,After looking at this issue the last couple of day,
there is an overall comment, this subdivision has been
designed and graded in accordance with standards set up for
many years by FHA and adhered to; therefore, there is
obviously a lot of questions in his mind as to why this
problem is there and what can be done about it. We need more
information and participation on all the parties involved to
come up with a solution that will gain support from everyone.
Mr. Sweatt asked Mr. Kossl to give an approximation of the
volume of water we are talking about to which Mr. Kossl said
on a 25 year basis, we're dealing with less than 10 cubic feet
per second. That doesn't minimize the problem.
Mr. Sweatt asked, in relation to improved versus unimproved,
what amount of water is coming in that general area? Mr.
Kossl said given the location, specifically of Mr. Condor's
lot, and looking at that as a classic situation of
pre - development run -off which is basically the percentage of
water hitting the ground and all the natural vegetation
conditions there versus, probably 308, 408 maybe 508. All of
our design criteria - this city and all other cities are based
on a 70% run -off coefficient. Obviously, the entire picture
is not clear.
Mr. Potempa asked Mr. Kossl what he was referring to when he
stated there were solutions with ramifications and Mr. KOSSI
referred to redirecting some water. He was a little concerned
about the idea of putting a curb or drain along the rear of
these lots, redirecting up the street because there may be
other problems associated with that and before that is done,
the city council, the neighborhood and the developers and
engineers need to know exactly what we are agreeing to do. To
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Mr. Potempa's inquiry regarding a time frame, Mr. Kossl said
probably a week to 10 days to get everyone together to gather
information and start working on solutions, the ramifications
and impacts.
Mayor Baldwin stated, basically the
group together involving reside
engineers, some council members and
at alternatives and recommended
ramifications to other properties.
all the solutions and try to decide
the least damaging to someone else.
recommendation is to get a
its of Woodland Oaks,
some staff and take a look
solutions and possible
That group would look at
the most effective and yet
City Engineer Ed Ford of Ford Engineering stated that one of
the other things Don McCrary needed was permission of
homeowners on lots backed up to Berry Creek to go in and pick
up some field work so they can better see where the drainage
is going and what the problems are.
After discussion regarding a meeting time, it was determined a
group would meet July 24, 1997 at 2:00 p.m. in the Conference
Room at the municipal building.
Mr— Condor stated he wasn't sure he could make the meeting
but whatever the city decides on this is acceptable to him as
long as there is no additional water after a solution is put
in place.
Mr. Duigon had signed up to speak and was called on at this
time.
Mr. Duigon stated he feels he really doesn't belong here
because he does not live in the affected area; however, on a
serious note, it is de ja vous all over again. Having
listened to Mr. McCrary and Mr. Ford, that is exactly the
same argument we heard in Deerhaven and Savannah Square. It
was Mr. Ford's engineering firm did recommend to the city in
the case of Deerhaven not to let the detention pond be the
solution. The question is, when I hear that there are legal
issues and state law involved, he is interested to hear if any
of the legal issues have to do with compliance with law or is
it on the basis of who is liable for whatever solution is
accepted.
Mr. McCrary stated he is not an attorney but he agreed on
most of the issues brought up by Mr. Duigon; therein is the
reason these issues are not just black and white. Drainage
overall is not an exact science.
Mayor Baldwin stated he thinks maybe there is some liability
concerns in this thing and that is why the city attorney needs
to be there to make sure, in the event there is some
liability, we have some representation. From the city's
standpoint, this may be causing a problem on Mr. Condor's
property and two or three houses surrounding him, but an
ultimate solution to get the water off his property may cause
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Problems for a lot of other people at some future date and if
that decision has to be made by this city council then the
liability involved in that decision.
Mr. McCrary reiterated that he is not an attorney but the
reason that has been brought up is through experience. There
are some legal aspects that affect all involved and the city
attorney needs to give some direction.
Mrs. Soto who lives at 2816 Hillview Lane said they too have
the same drainage problem and all those houses need to be
looked at in the area.
Mr. Bill Smith who lives at 2813 Kline Circle stated even
though he does not have the same degree as other residents, he
still has increased drainage run -off.
Mr. Larry Farlow who lives at 2801 Kline Circle stated he is
also affected by the drainage run -off and one of his concerns
is that he often sees contractors start a project and then
sometimes they use the law to arrange a problem to their
benefit.
Mr. Bob King who lives at 2700 Kline Circle stated at this
time he Ss not experiencing any of the run -off problems;
however as a member of the Board of Directors of Woodland Oaks
Homeowner's Association, he is here to represent them. Their
concern is the big picture; how does construction of a
subdivision affect others.
Mr. Gene Workmon who lives at 2728 Poplar Grove stated he has
not heard any reference as to whether engineers from Ashley
Place being involved in this same situation and discussion.
Since they are down slope, they are still building.
Mayor Baldwin assured Mr. Workmon that Ashley Place engineers
(Mr. McCrary who also represents Ashley Place) is involved
and is here tonight.
Mr. Don Martin who lives at 1016 Jasper Hill Lane stated
there is a possibility this problem could be moved downstream
through Ashley Place so it is not just a matter of Berry
Creek.
Susan Garrett of 2701 Hillview Lane on the corner of Woodland
Oaks Drive and Hillview Lane stated her concern is the flow of
water causing potholes in the street.
Mr. Condor stated that Mr. Simonson did visit him four (4)
or five (5) months ago and mentioned those houses in Woodland
Oaks were cut off into that hill - there might have been some
problems there with the initial building of those lots, and if
so, who was the engineer for the city that allowed that to
happen. They've still been building,back there and he would
like to know if they are going to continue to get new permits
until we come up with a resolution.
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Mayor Baldwin stated there are no new permits being issued.
Mr. McCrary stated that he is hearing a spirit of cooperation
which he was hoping to hear. They are ready to form the
committee and start on this tomorrow and all of those who
brought up issues, it is agreed they need to be looked at.
Mayor Baldwin asked if there was anyone present who would like
to serve on the committee. Mr. Don Martin and Mr. Bob King
volunteered.
Mr. Sweatt stated the engineers will need to have permission
to go on private property to assess the situation and those
present had no objections.
Mayor Baldwin's synopsis was that a group will meet tomorrow
to include the engineers, residents of the subdivisions, as
well as some city staff and city council members. Some
scenarios and solutions will be presented by the engineers.
Everyone will review those and be briefed by the city attorney
regarding any liability that the city faces in each scenario
and then come to some kind of an agreement on the resolution
of this situation. In thinking about it, without conversing
with any-, engineer until tonight, the problem could be that
Woodland Oaks was designed imperfectly and the problem may be
that drainage in Woodland Oaks was not put in properly and
maybe that is the problem. If that is problem, it probably
too late to do anything about it simply because Woodland Oaks
is almost built out. It may not be totally fair to ask
neighboring subdividers to move water abnormally around
through their subdivision to get it out into whatever drainage
will keep from damaging Mr. Condor's or anyone else's
property. We need to compromise and do what is right for
everyone. Whatever is decided, there will be opportunity for
residents to be made aware and to be heard at a future council
meeting. The committee will meet tomorrow at 2:00 p.m. in
the conference room across the hall from the council chambers.
Mr. Dan Kossl asked on behalf of the builder - having been
under a moratorium now for a week and you've gotten our
attention and have shown some good process towards some
resolutions. In that regard, would it be possible for the
moratorium to be lifted due to the economic hardship on those
affected employees.
Mayor Baldwin thanked everyone for the cooperative effort and
stated that it was his recommendation to place the moratorium
until something could get started. With a temporary solution
that involves placing hay bales, etc. to direct water away
from Mr. Condor's and other's houses; at this point, Mayor
Baldwin said he has no problem lifting the moratorium - it is
a council decision and it is not something we can legally vote
_ on but he would be glad to accept any consensus of the
council.
_RAn_
George Mower interjected that this obviously came from Berry
Creek and if Berry Creek can't play with the big boys and be
responsible for their employees for the bottom line, etc., the
city council should stay their race, keeping their feet on the
fire until they come up with a provable solution to relieve
the rest of the town.
Mr. Ben Howard stated his concerns that if the developer
continues and exacerbates the problem, it wouldn't be smart to
lift the moratorium.
Mayor Baldwin stated they have continued to work on those
sites where they already had permits and begun construction -
we didn't stop that, rather asked that no more building
permits be issued until such time as we get some direction and
guidance.
Dan Kossl asked if there could be a compromise, lifting the
moratorium if they didn't build anything adjacent to Woodland
Oaks and Berry Creek - i.e., the upper end of Berry Creek
Drive, lots adjacent to Woodland Oaks from Berry Trace to
Hillview.
Mr... Swinney stated that he hoped the prospective buyers along
that area are going to be made aware of the potential changes
to the drainage and later could have a drainage ditch in their
back yard.
Mr. McCrary stated they are advising new buyers of the
situation.
Mr. McDonald said he had driven up there and would like to
see the engineers expand that to include Ashley Place and at
least tell us if water was drained all the way across Berry
Creek and Ashley Place down into the cement drainage ditch,
what would that do downstream. Looking at it, there is a hole
on the back side of Berry Creek fence that joins Ashley Park
that he could probably crawl under, where the water has cut
through there and is running down the fence line on Ashley
Place property that curves and goes back into Woodland Oaks.
Mr. McCrary responded that he couldn't speak for that
developer - he has not been brought in at this point - but
would put a call in to him tomorrow.
Mr. Swinney stated it was disturbing to him that it took
several months for Mr. Condor's concerns to be addressed and
hopefully, they will be more responsive this time.
Mayor Baldwin stated that he believes we have the builder's
attention and an effort to resolve the situation so at this
point, he recommends lifting the moratorium, expecting no more
building where additional problems could be created. With
that said, we would like to proceed with the agenda.
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#3 Discuss final reading of Ordinance rezoning 35.31 acres
of land out of Comal County from Predevelopment (PD) to
Manufacturing District - Light (M -1) (Forbes property).
Mr. Sweatt stated the only reason the remainder of the items
are on the agenda is because this meeting was somewhat out of
schedule - we would normally not have met tonight and would
have met next Wednesday night; however, since we announced we
were going to meet tonight to deal with the drainage issue, we
would place these items on the agenda so that we would know
what we will be dealing with next week.
#4 Discuss request from FM 3009 Partners Ltd. for a
waiver to the sidewalk requirement on the east side entrance
to Forest Ridge Subdivision.
Mr. Sweatt stated that Mr. Sam Bledsoe is the representative
of the developer (Forest Ridge Subdivision). In the packet
are copies of photographs in support of the request, also
copies of information from the Planning and Zoning (P & Z)
Commission meeting and a letter from the developer regarding
this matter. The basic issue is the requirement of
construction of sidewalk on both sides of the street to be
identified as Forest Ridge Parkway. After hearing the request
from the .developer, the P & Z Commission have voted to
recommend waiver of the requirement for sidewalks on both
sides. Mr. Bledsoe is here and is prepared to answer
questions and describe the circumstances.
Sam Bledsoe stated this development has an entryway that is
90' wide and we're trying to save as many trees as we could
and the developer ended up buying another 20' of width from
Barshop so that he could shift the street over and save some
trees. This was a gated community also, so we knew we had on
pedestrian gate as you go in on the right hand side so they'd
planned to have a sidewalk on that side anyway where the
walking traffic could get in. As a result of saving the trees
we meandered this road through this 90' entryway so the
Parkway on one side is wider than the other side. They
purposely maintained enough width on one side for the sidewalk
and on the other side, there isn't enough width to put two
sidewalks in and save the trees. The sidewalks in the
subdivision once in, are accessible everywhere to handicapped
people via a ramp to cross the street to the sidewalk on the
other side.
Mr. McDonald commented the plan looks good. His concern is
the property from the gate on down to FM 3009 is commercial
property. He is against waiving sidewalk requirements period;
but in this case, the property is commercial and hasn't been
developed.
Following discussion, it was the consensus of the council to
place this item on the August 5, 1997.action agenda.
#5 Discuss potential rezoning of business area along
Schertz Parkway.
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Mr. Sweatt called attention to a memorandum from the Planning
and Zoning Commission (P & Z) describing questions the P & Z
has. There has been considerable discussion regarding zoning
and what should be done on Schertz Parkway. P & Z directed a
memorandum be sent to you asking for advise, suggestions or
directions that you might have specifically regarding this
issue.
Mr. Greenwald stated the developers originally wanted 500'
with the intent that somewhere down the road they would recoup
some of the cost. Obviously, in 15 years it hasn't developed.
The Planning and Zoning Commission's thought is that 500' is
too deep. 150' would be more in line when it started
developing as far as houses.
Mr. McDonald said he doesn't have a problem with neighborhood
services, we're basically getting the same type of development
there. Mr. McDonald asked, 'if we go to 150' and say some
Plain office site operation, single story office complex
wanted to move in here make a corporate headquarters, or a
medical clinic - is 150' enough for that type of development,
would 250' or 300' be better ?'
Mayor Baldwin stated his concern was not so much the 500'
versus 150' as it is to hold 150' once we do it and on Schertz
Parkway where we have the tax increment finance (TIF) zone, we
have given away a tremendous amount of neighborhood services
or general business property already to the Ashley Subdivision
and now the Carolina Crossing Subdivision. From the school
districts standpoint, when we entered into the TIF and agreed
to give taxes away on property within so many feet of Schertz
Parkway, the agreement was that we were doing this to help
develop Schertz Parkway so that we would attract commercial
development and increase the tax base and help us all. At
this point, that hasn't happened, the only thing it has done
is built more houses right up to FM 3009 which has brought
more students and that has projected the problems we're having
with building schools fast enough to keep ahead of the pace.
That 500', at least at one point in time, was scheduled to be
some kind of business property to bring tax base and not
students.
Mr. McDonald said we need to look at the percentage of
residential we originally allowed in the TIF zone.
Mayor Baldwin stated we have a recommendation for 150' and one
council member saying 300' - asked for any other thoughts.
Mr. Swinney wondered if limiting to 150' will give us a
possibility of what the general public would probably consider
undesirable businesses; otherwise, he would go with 150'.
Mayor Baldwin stated we aren't going to vote on this tonight
and we need to ask the city manager to do some research on the
TIF, find out where we are percentage wise on residential.
Following some discussion, all council members agreed to
recommend 250' to P & Z.
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#6 CITY MANAGER'S REPORT: A. Reported we've received a
-- request from Schertz Bank regarding extending the sewer line
on Schertz Parkway and staff thought we'd reached an agreement
with the bank, Johns property and Jesse Hellums property. We
asked they put this all in writing and there were going to be
some recommendations. Mr. Hellums had some concerns because
his mobile home park is currently existing as non - conforming
use and not in immediate need of sewer and the demand for
capital recovery fee per Living Unit Equivalent (LUI) would be
a pretty substantial financial hit. It is our understanding
they were going to request a delay. The letter we have now
received requests a five (5) year waiver. We didn't think
that was appropriate. If one septic system quits functioning
in the interim, that would allow them to repair it and not be
required to hook on to the sewer line. Right now, that
agreement is dead in the water but we have placed this item on
your discussion agenda. The bank has made a lot of effort to
put that together in order to get sewer to their frontage
property; but the arrangement with Mr. Hellums, unless it is
resolved, is probably not going to let the deal work. The
bank really wants to get this moving and with the council's
permission, would like to place this on the August 5, 1997
agenda and ask the city council consider a variance.
B. Reminded members of the TML Region 8 meeting on August
8th, 6:00 p.m. social hour, dinner at 7:00 p.m. at Randolph
Air Force Base Officer's Club and we need attendance plans by
` July 30th.
C. Called attention to a ground breaking at Theis
Distributing on FM 3009, Friday, July 25 at 6:00 p.m. There
will be fajitas and cold drinks and casual dress is
recommended due to the heat.
D. Stated that H -E -B is having a restaurant (Greats) opening
on August 5 in the early afternoon and invitations were to
have been mailed.
#7 ITEMS BY COUNCIL: Mr. McDonald: A. Commented that
he understands Greenshire residents received a letter about
sidewalks on their access road. Mr. Sweatt said we have
notified the developer of sidewalk requirement on Woodland
Oaks Drive from Unit 6 to Unit 3.
B. Stated it looks like it is getting dry enough to schedule
mowing in the ditch behind Cotten King. Mr. Sweatt replied
that we are working now as long as we can and are woefully
behind. Water and street department personnel are working
overtime and frankly are losing ground.
C. Inquired if we need to take any action on Mr. Sweatt's
memo regarding the Caboose non - compliance with ADA.
Mr. Swinney commented that Ms. Niemietz has bent over
backwards to accommodate as much as she can considering the
nature of the structure.
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Mayor Baldwin stated that it was his belief that if she ever
closes that business down, the city needs to make it clear to
the Riedels that the Caboose will not be operated as a
business again unless they can address the ADA issues and
bring it up to standards.
Mr. Potemoa: A. Stated he noticed a sign on FM 78 saying
"crew work ahead" and maybe that is a good indication. Mr.
Sweatt advised the right of way maps have been finished, we
are contacting property owners and finished four (4)
appraisals and have been in contact with all but two (2) of
the property owners on FM 78. The appraiser is working on his
first round of appraisals for us to start making offers. The
project is still in the proposed Texas Department of
Transportation letting for fiscal 1997 -98 which is really 1998
year, hopefully August or September.
B. Commented the Destiny Homes construction office, a double
wide mobile home which he understood was to be a temporary
structure has built a porch, poured a concrete sidewalk and
now they are putting siding up. He has asked Steve Simonson
to- .check -into this.
C. Mentioned the new restaurant going in next to the Ace
Hardware store.
Mr. Swinnev: A. Stated we've found a new use for the large
pavilion at the park, apparently it is a big hangout for skate
boarders.
B. Inquired if anyone would be interested, if he were to
scrounge courtesy rides on a T -37 or T -38?
Mr. Greenwald: Had nothing to report at this time.
#8 ITEMS BY MAYOR: A. Inquired if anyone was interested
in doing the FM 3009 /Schertz Parkway bus trip this Saturday or
next Saturday. Due to conflicts it was decided to reschedule
when everyone will be able to attend.
B. Requested the names of those employees responsible for the
Fiesta Texas trip for the flood victim's children.
C. Commented that last night as he came across FM 78 he could
still smell the odor from Beck Concrete. Mr. Sweatt said
today is the sixth day and they told him they thought it would
be six (6) or seven (7) days so he would call them again.
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#9 ADJOURNMENT:
Mr. Potempa and
adjourned at 9:35 p.
ATTEST:
On a motion by Mr. Swinney, seconded by
carried unanimously, the meeting was
M.
Deputy City Secretary, City of Schertz
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