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04-08-1997 & TIF . . . e e MINUTES OF THE JOINT MEETING OF PLANNING AND ZONING AND TIF The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission and the TIF convened in a Joint Session on on Tuesday, April 8, 1997 in the Municipal Complex Bob Andrews Conference Room, 1400 Schertz Parkway, Schertz, Texas. Those present were as follows: PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION CITY STAFF ERNIE EVANS DAVID RICHMOND MERWIN WILLMAN PIA JARMAN GARY WALLACE KEITH VAN DINE TONY MORENO KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN STEVE SIMONSON, ASST. CITY MANAGER DENISE GRANGER, PLANNING SECRETARY MARK MARQUEZ, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR MEMBERS ABSENT TIF BOARD MEMBERS JOE POTEMPA GERALD BETHKE LEWIS STREET OLLIE BURKETT CHRISTY SHRIVER PATRICIA SASSMAN CHUCK SHARPE II CALL TO ORDER Ernie Evans called the joint meeting to order at 7:55 p.m. #2 DISCUSS: The Future Development of Schertz Parkway. Ernie Evans stated the purpose of the meeting is a generic general discussion this is not a decisional meeting just a discussional meeting. Mark Marquez suggested that everyone introduce themselves to each other. Ernie Evans passed out information that has been discussed by the P & Z Commission to get started on the discussion. Merwin Willman suggested that Ernie present how the P & Z feels and for us to go from there. Ollie Burkett gave a brief historical background. When this issue first came before the school board he was the president. The idea was that Schertz Parkway would be a first class entrance into the City of Schertz. This is the idea that Ollie worked on to sell it to the school board, a concept which was unamiously agreed upon. When the City came and presented how it would be funded, it was pretty much a "done deal" as it was being looked at as the entrance into the City of Schertz; a first class project. There are a lot of people in the community that feel this is what is going to happen and are looking forward to this. . . . e e Ernie Evans stated the Commission is in agreement with Ollie. What the Commission has tried to watch over is the same type of idea. We see Schertz Parkway as a unique situation with the trees that are around it, the development that is there, at the same time it is not going to be another FM 3009. The traffic on FM 3009 is heavy a lot of it is industrial, and there is no way we can pretty up FM 3009, now and make it look good without putting in lots of money, which the City does not have. Ernie Evans showed a diagram, an artistic rendering of the potential use of Schertz Parkway. The drawing showed two lanes on each side of a median with greenery with turn lanes as needed. The median could also be made a continuous turn lane. The boulevard median could have shrubbery, something that would not cost a lot or take a lot of maintenance. Schertz Parkway could be started up at IH 35 and come down to Live Oak Road because of the width and the property that is there. This would give the opportunity of working with both current developers. With the width being 86', the P & Z had made the developers set their property back an additional 10' so there is plenty of distance on the east side to put in some kind of nice 8' walkway that would provide walking, jogging and hiking etc. trail that could be run from one end of Schertz Parkway to the other end. This has been talked about on "our side" with this green area tying in with the Forest Ridge Subdivision which will be located off FM 3009 as a gated community. Its builder has set aside a sizable strip of over 17 acres down the side of the power line easement. The Commission is thinking that as the trail gets up to the power lines bringing it across from Schertz Parkway to FM 3009. This would keep the "green look" of Schertz Parkway intact with the greenery along the power lines. The question is, is this the same kind of idea that the TIF had in mind in terms of making Schertz Parkway the grand entrance into the City? Christy Shriver stated this four lane concept is more than the three lanes which we have discussed and found unacceptable. TIF always felt that we needed five lanes for the traffic. Patricia Sassman stated it needs to be done the right way now and not in ten or twenty years. Christy Shriver stated with there being four lanes with a turn lane there is the need for Schertz Parkway and FM 3009 to have some connections. Ernie Evans stated at this time we have three major roads that connect Schertz Parkway and FM 3009. Mark Marquez spoke for the Chairman of the TIF who was concerned with the center median being landscaped because of the cost. This will be a city road way so the city will be responsible for the maintenance. What will the initial cost be and how much will it cost to maintain it. The funding in the intial package for TIF is good for three years, after this the TIF will go away. So what happens beyond this point as this is about three miles and not just -2- e e . the median but also the ROW's that are part of it. Merwin Willman stated first we need to all come to a consensus on three, or four lanes with either a median or just a turning lane and then we can discuss the financing. Pia Jarman stated that as we have conducted a survey for the City Comprehensive Plan, that has gone to the citizens, the one thing that keeps coming up is the fact that people would like more recreational areas. Not necessarily little parks but as you can see, you see people jogging, walking their dogs along the Parkway, and even on FM 3009, which is dangerous. On FM 3009 there are people jogging in the middle of the road. We need to provide something. Pia firmly believes in making something of this city that our neighbors do not have, and that is a "continuous" kind of planned green areas. This is why the green median idea for the Parkway came up as Gary Wallace had suggested it because he had seen it in another area of the country. It was lovely as an approach into or out of a city. At first the other Commissioners thought it was too expensive, then as we got to thinking of it and the vision it presented we decided that it would be financially feasible. We do not have a Fifth Avenue type grand entrance into the city but we have something in line with what people see when they opt to live in Schertz. . Mark Marquez stated because of the topography of Schertz Parkway the speed limit will not be like what is on FM 3009. Chuck Sharpe stated he doesn't know if he would accept the first premise of Schertz Parkway being different than what was envisioned in the past. Being part of the past, Chuck was on the Council when we were fortunate to have Schertz Parkway put in and fortunate enough to have the developers donate the ROW just before the realestate crashed. The primary purpose, and still the primary purpose, is to move traffic. FM 3009 picks up a lot of the commercial traffic which it should. FM 3009 is a state highway and maintained as a state highway. The problem we have with 3009 is, we have no control over the accesses. This was the first thing that made everyone so anxious to keep it from looking like Pat Booker. FM 3009 serves a good purpose, it moves traffic, which was what it was designed for. On Schertz Parkway, the theory was to have another major thoroughfare into Schertz, that would be a nice entrance with shrubbery and greenery, that we, the citizens of Schertz, could control. This is the only place we can do something and be proud of. The walkway is a super idea for the people that want to walk. This is great. The center landscaping median, however, seems like it would be more prone to accidents than with a continuous left turn. . Merwin Willman stated the dimensions of the left turn lane could come later. The idea is to get the concept on what we all agree on for the road: four lanes with a median or four lanes with a continuous turn lane. -3- . . . e e Ernie Evans stated the reason the Commission liked the idea that was presented, is because Ernie likes the idea of keeping as much greenery in the city as possible. The greenery is what attracts a lot of people to the City. It has attracted many of the people who are here now along with its open space. Ernie likes the "perpetual green" type of concept. This is the reason for the median, putting in it greenery. Ollie Burkett stated we all need to either agree to disagree on the issue of four or five lanes. The engineering can be done at a later time. Trees in the median are going to be very difficult to maintain. The idea that was sold to the board was that Schertz Parkway would be pleasing and something that would be unique to the area. Everyone seems to feel this way, so we all need to agree that we agree. Ernie cuts none keep Evans stated it on this piece of anticipated in the the curb cuts down is the intention of the P & z to keep curb road down, as you have noticed. There are foreseeable future, and it is our intent to with a nice long, pretty parkway. Steve Simonson stated there was one thing that was pointed out earlier that he would like to add to. This is the difficulty of getting onto FM 3009. The reason for this is the high speed of traffic with no stop signs or stop lights. The difference here is that the City controls this road. What this group decides will go a long way to ensuring that we will not have this type of problem. Schertz Parkway was not built for speeds higher than 35 mph. If you look at the geometry of the road it is a bad road as far as speed because of the turns. Ollie Burkett stated we as a group need to come to a consensus on either a three or four lane. Chuck Sharpe stated he feels the consensus of the group is for the four lanes. Everyone present was in agreement of a minimum of four lanes. Christy Shriver stated the median would come in to play, if the City can maintain it. Mark Marquez stated the median does not have to be decided tonight. The main concern was either the three or four lane concept and everyone is in agreement to the four lane. The difference between the median and the continuous turn lane is the median. There is no disagreement of walkways, just the greenery in the road. There is plenty of time to discuss the median more. The Schertz Parkway zone will not be ready to fund the construction of the improvements for another five to ten years, and many things could happen within this time. Ernie Evans stated the comp plan is being looked at now. There are two town meetings scheduled during the next couple of months. We don't want to be too far apart because the comp plan is looking at, not two years from now, but 20 years from now. We do want to have a vision but the vision is a changeable vision. It is where we -4- . . . e e think we want to go and we will get there with the economy and as everything else perpetuates us getting there. This is a vision that could be put into the comp plan as a vision and not carved in stone. This should not be looked at as "this is what is going to happen" because this, in reality, only a dream and a vision of what the group would like to see happen within the next 20 years. David Richmond stated we came here to generally agree that this is a reasonable and acceptable vision to all of us and that we need to proceed knowing that this is out there. Basically, this is telling us the plan today is to have a four lane road with a median of sorts, to have a turn lanes, and jogging and walking paths. Ollie Burkett stated he would like to go back with the feeling that conceptual wise we have some what of an agreement. We would be looking to a median or disregard the median. This is a concept that needs to be considered and that we are in a consensus. The sooner we get the concept out to the community, the sooner we are going to have a buy-in or rejection on the project. David Richmond stated ideally, conceptually we probably agree that we are in favor of that. P & Z was, as we have discussed it. As has been suggested by Chuck and others that we have to be mindful that there probably are some constraints there that other people need to address. Of course, there is the traffic and safety, the question of maintenance. Conceptually, we who are not traffic engineers, we who are not in charge of the city's green areas, can say we like this for some of the reasons that have been expressed. So we are in agreement with you all with the conceptual vision. This is not to say that at some point in time, that someone could come along and say this drought that has lasted for the last fifteen years is not going to permit us to do anything out there. Ernie Evans stated from the P & Z standpoint this is our plan there are other things to consider and a lot of them have discussed tonight. but been Christy Shriver stated the Zone has not had a chance to look at that concept since we saw this at this meeting. When we talked about it, the Zone board was in favor of the five lane. At least four lanes and one lane for people to turn. Christy doesn't think there would be a problem with the Zone board accepting something like this. But for us to say that the zone board totally agrees we can't say that with three members absent. Ollie Burkett stated he was asking for an agreement of consensus, a consensus of the concept as somewhere we have to agree conceptually. Christy Shriver stated the charter does state that at the entrance of IH 35 we will have a boulevard type of arrangement. Now as to how far this gets extended, that will depend upon a number of things. But this was the concept that is in part of the chartering that went forth for the zone board. The concept between both -5- e e 4It groups is in agreement. Ollie Burkett stated we all need to leave here with some kind of consensus even though three members are absent but we all need to agree. Christy Shriver asked if the property along Schertz Parkway to IH 35 will be left GB? Ernie Evans stated there are a couple of things that we might want to consider on this issue. Carolina Crossing is filling in a lot of the area for their development. This has been discussed by the P & Z several times. Since this is zoned housing on either side of Schertz Parkway, maybe it could change along Schertz Parkway from GB to NS, which would fit in better with residential zoning. Leave Weiderstein Road up to IH 35 as GB. There is a difference in the zoning as far as outside sales and inside sales are concerned, as far as GB and NS. Mark Marquez stated the discussions with the zone board is the outside versus the inside sales. It would be preferred "inside sales only" on Schertz Parkway, which was a consensus of the Zone board. . David Richmond stated this was also the consensus of the P & Z. If you recall a couple of times this subject has come up and gone before the City Council in a public hearing. The biggest concern is the land owners that own the frontage on Schertz Parkway, that still feel the best utilization from their perspective is GB. The general consensus on the part of P & Z is with the present development heavily residential, the best zoning to fit in would be NS. We are more inclined to put in a dental office or something of this nature, that fits in well with NS zoning. This needs to be treated like it has been with the developers coming in and proposing what he intends to do. Ernie Evans stated with the zoning being GB if a developer came in and chose to meet the rules of the UDC, whether we like it or not, we could not refuse what he intends as it would fit into the category of GB. Steve been is a phone boring Simonson stated it is much more dangerous now than it has since 1980 when Schertz Parkway was built, because there now sewer line in the GB area and there is water, electricity, and cable. This is being done because of Carolina Crossing the sewer line in on the west side of the roadway. Ernie Evans asked if the TIF would be west side of Schertz Parkway to NS? would have no problem whatsoever, thought. in opposition to rezoning the Chuck Sharpe stated that they as this was their general . Mark Marquez stated GB has a more broader spectrum where as with NS it is stricter. -6- . . . e e Steve Simonson stated all of the players that were involved in building the road are no longer there but one. There is 14 miles of GB on IH 35 right now for all types of business and 3 1/2 miles of GB on I-10 for future development. If this is going to be our premiere road then down zoning, which will still consist of all of the businesses that you would want by your home to come in, you stop the type of thing that is not allowed in NS. This is a list on what type of businesses is allowed in each zoning district. Councilman Ken Greenwald stated he did not think there would be a lot of resentment going from GB to NS or OP (Office/Professional) as this is the type of businesses you would want in a residential area. Seventeen years ago this was all farm land. It was felt that this road would serve as the main entry into the city. It did not materialize for some reason. The city spent a lot of money on this road particularly in the southern part. The thought on FM 3009 on the corner clips, was to have the dental offices, cleaners etc. and it is now starting to go in this direction. Mark Marquez asked Ernie about the lower portion of Schertz Parkway by Live Oak Road as far as zoning? Ernie stated this is GB. Mark Marquez asked if the signage for NS is more stringent than for GB? Steve stated in the overlay district for Schertz Parkway, it is a lot more stringent. All signs can be no higher than 18 X 9 with 90 square feet face size. Mark Marquez inquired if it would be helpful to P & Z in terms of signage, zoning etc. if the TIF approached P & Z in an official capacity and asked P & Z to look at this. We are in broad agreement to the issues. Could we sit down and make a document of what we would like to see and make it happen? Ernie Evans stated this is a good way for us to approach it, simply because we are then not way out on a limb. It would be a broad spectrum for all of the issues concerned. David Richmond stated it would be helpful to have this type of meeting, but not to suggest that it be on our next agenda as such David suggests because there is general consensus that merits our discussion and consideration and that the rezoning issue be put on our agenda at sometime and we invite the Zone for a letter to consider, so we may make a recommendation to City Council. Ernie Evans asked if there was any other items that the zone board would like to discuss? Christy Shriver stated there were other things that had discussed by the board i.e. jogging, hiking trails etc., consensus is that the board would like to see this but its concern was the road. The other thing would be drainage in area before you get down to Live Oak Road. been the main the Mark Marquez stated when he originally wrote the proposal for the -7- . . . e e Zone board, he did not include any consideration for the drainage. The question is, if a default issue for some infrastructure work i.e. water, sewer, etc., the charter may have to be rewritten. Steve stated that "yes" the drainage will have to be worked on. Mark Marqeuz stated it does show the drainage. It is just that the TIF did not include this into the amount of money that they allotted. It has been addressed tonight that the drainage will have to be included. Christy Shriver requested if in the meantime something comes up, as far as a new business under GB that will be on Schertz Parkway, will the P & Z be willing to notify the Parkway Zone with a courtesy letter or through Mark that this is happening and invite the board to the meeting. Ernie stated he has no problem with this. Gary Wallace stated if we are going to talk about zoning should we mention Merwin's thoughts as far as the depth of the GB. Gary stated Merwin has felt that the depth of the GB zoning is bigger than necessary which is 500' off Schertz Parkway. Merwin has suggested that maybe a lesser depth off the Parkway would be more appropriate for the community services type of zoning. Pia Jarman stated the 500' was precisely to disguise the GB behind trees. Ollie Burkett stated some of the money is only considered in the 1000', so it mayor may not have any bearing. Mark Marquez stated changing the zoning from GB to NS would change the financial structure. Mark stated there is 1000' on both sides of the parkway that is affected. But the issue of residential opposed to GB, is a concern to the school. The depth is an issue but Mark does not know by how much. Merwin Willman stated 17 years ago this was planned for GB along Schertz Parkway. Here it is 17 years later, we know it isn't going to be zoned GB. It has never developed and it probably never will this is how the economy changes. Twenty years from now it may not happen but on the way you have to make adjustments along with the economy. Ollie Burkett stated he would tend to agree with this. But as this concept gets materialized, if you put in more housing, there will be more children and you give up 75% of the revenue. You don't get the state money then the school has to give up the 75% revenue and then fund 100% for the children to go to school. The P & Z Commission and the TIF decided to have on a future agenda the discussion on for Schertz Parkway. -8- . . . . . #3 ADJOURNMENT: Christy Shriver moved to adjourn the meeting. Ernie Evans seconded the motion which carried with a unanimous vote. The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m. -q-