11-18-1986 PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES
The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council conducted a Joint
Public Nearing on November 18, 1986 at 7:00 P.M. in the Municipal Complex
Council Chambers, 1400 Live Oak Road. P~embers present were as follows:
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION CITY COUNCIL
THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN EARL SAWYER, MAYOR
BOB ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN CHUCK SHARPE
JAMES HARDEN, SECRETARY ADOLPH AGUILAR
MERWIN WILLMAN KEN GREENWALD
TY BRISGILL HAL BALDWIN
DAVID ALLEN RAY STANHOPE
DONALD WILSON
CITY STAFF
STEVE SIMONSON, PLANNING COORDINATOR
NORPIA ALTHOUSE, RECORDING SECRETARY
JIMMY GILMORE, CITY MANAGER
JUNE KRAUSE,'CITY SECRETARY
#1 CALL TO ORDER
Mayor Sawyer called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. He then acknowledged
Reserve Police Officers Russell George and Thomas Curd and the person in
.charge of training them, Officer Russell Bundy, and ask those present to give
ahem a big round of applause for their services.
Mayor Sawyer then turnsd the meeting over to Planning and Zoning. Chairman
Thomas Yarling.
#2 PUBLIC HEARING: Specific Use Permit - #86-1
To receive input from the public on a request by New Creation Christian Fellow-
ship fora Specific Use Permit to build a church on a 43.128 acre tract of land
out of a certain 53:128 acre tract described in a Warranty Deed from Coy J.
Simmons to Valley Joint Denture. The land is located at the end of Crest Oak,
east of Crown Oak and north of Circle Oak in the Oak Forest Subdivision.
Chairman Yarling explained the rules of procedure fora public hearing.
Steve Simonson, Planning Coordinator, gave a brief presentation on the location
of the proposed church and also reported that .twenty-two (22) letters had been
sent to property owners within 200 feet of the location. Mr. Simonson said
five (5) letters had been returned by those property. owners with four (4) of
them against the Specific Use Permit and one (1) person in favor.
Those who gave presentations for:New-Creation Christian:Fellowship were Pastor
David Copeland., William Andrews and Elliot Cunningham.-They stressed their
desire to build in the City of Schertz, to cooperate-with the City and it's
residents and to be a positive influence on the community and a definite asset
to the City.
Doris Courtney passed out copies of a petition that had been signed by residents
of Oak Forest.
A five-year plan was presented. as follows:
First building - a worship and fellowship center projected for completion in
1988.
Second building - a gymnasium and recreation center projected for completion
in 990- 99 .
Third building - an early learning center (grades 1 through 6).
.After the presentation by the applicant, the following citizens spoke:
R.E. Booth 4309 Spanish Oak
.Jerry Hennig 1414 Circle Oak
John Ireland 1536 Circle Oak
James .Todd 1505 Circle Oak
Stanley Spurkosky 1312 Circle Oak
Derrell Brown 4204 Lazy Oak
Mary Marsh 4209 Spanish Oak
All of the above citizens spoke against the Specific Use Permit stating among
their reasons the increased traffic because ingress and egress through the
subdivision is the only access,.loss of the tax revenue that would be gained
if residential dwellings were built there instead of a church, and the promise
.when they bought their homes there that the area would be all residential dwel-
lings.
Also, they wanted the answer to several questions such as what size is the
membership of the church, what is their growth rate, what are their plans for
the future, how many members currently live in Schertz, do they have a projection
on the amount of increased, traffic they will generate on given days, how did they
plan to handle off-street parking and why were there no drawings or architectural
designs presented..
After the citizens spoke, the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council
members asked questions of the applicants.- Among those questions were how many
times a:week do you hold services, have you consulted the local school district
to see if there is a need for a Christian School, how many members do you project
you will have in the next five years and `how do you plan to finance all this
building.
Councilman Hale:Baldwin asked for a show of ,hands from those who had'not returned
their letters but who are against the proposed church. Mr. Baldwin asked that
.the record show .that ten (10) more households are against the proposal, bringing
the total against to fourteen (14).
After these questions the a~ppl zcant' wasp allowed '.time forr~rebuttal:..Pastor David '
Copeland,~William-Andrews and.flliot Cu~nni.ngham all: responded. to questions asked
by the citizens and by Planning .and Zoning and City.Council..
They said they are willing to work with.the City as best they can to.help allevi-
ate the traffic problem, but they feel they will not generate .traffic at peak
hours because of 'the days and times o.f their services nor will-they generate more
traffic than would normally be there if residential dwellings were built in~the
same area. ~ .
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They said they do not intend to be a burden or charity case as far as tax revenue
loss, but rather make worthwhile contributions to the community both financially
and spiritually.
They currently have a membership of 350-400 .but project future growth at around
800-900 members.
Their plans for the future include the three buildings (worship center, gymnasium,
and early learning center) in the hopes of providing a Christian family environ-
ment.
Most of their members, at the present time, live outside the area of Schertz but
would be looking to buy homes in the area within the next five years.
They did not provide drawings or architectural designs because they do not wish
to have a large cash outlay for this type of thing without the issuance of the
Specific Use Permit.
They currently hold services on Sundays and Bible study on Wednesdays.
They have not consulted the local school district about the need fora Christian
School but would be willing to do so.
They had an income last year of $300,000.00 of which $170,000.00 was left after
expenses.
At this time Chairman Yarling made his closing. remarks saying there would be no
more input from citizens after the hearing, all comments from the hearing would
be considered, and Planning and Zoning: Commission has ten (10) days to make their
recommendation to City Council.
#3 GENERAL DISCUSSION.
There was none.
#4 ADJOURNMENT OF PUBLIC HEARING
Chairman Yarling then turned the meeting back over to Mayor Sawyer. Mayor Sawyer
thanked everyone for their cooperation and adjourned the public hearing at 8:13 P.M.
The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission reconvened in a regular session, after
the Joint Public Hearing, in the Municipal Complex Conference Room.
#5 CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Yarling called the meeting to order at 8:22 P.M.
#6 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Regular Session October 28, 1986
Bob Andrews made a motion to approve the minutes for the Regular Session, October
28, 1986. David Allen seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor.
Motion carried.
#7 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS ON AGENDA AND OTHER AGENDA ITEMS
There was none.
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#8 CONSIDER-AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Terminate or Extend Preliminary Plat
Approval - Schaefer Village Unit I and
II (In the ETJ - Not Zoned)
Joe Hoffman was at the meeting to represent Schaefer Village. Mr. Hoffman
informed the Commission he was asking for another extension. _
Mr. Hoffman passed out copies of a letter from a loan broker with whom they are
.currently working. He went on to explain that three loan committments had come
and gone, but things look good so far with the current loan broker.. Mr. Hoffman
also pointed out that none of the loans had been disapproved because of poor
quality of the proposed project - they all felt the project was of high quality.
Bob Andrews asked what Mr. Hoffman's intentions are if this one falls through.
Joe Hoffman replied .they would take it one step at a time and if this one falls
through, they would keep on trying.
David Allen asked if there were any Staff comments and Steve Simonson replied
no there were not.
Chairman Yarling asked Mr. Hoffman if he is asking for a twelve-month extension.
and Mr. Hoffman replied yes he is.
David Allen made a motion to extend the Preliminary Plat a~~roval for Schaefer
Village, Units I and II fora period of twelve months effective as of September
10, 198.6 through September 10, 1987. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and
the vote was unanimous in favor. hlotion carried.
#9 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION,:. Request from Vaughan Homes to Erect a
Temporary Development Sign f'or Greensh;ire
Oaks. Su6d~vi~siion:
There was:. mo ones apt the, meetiingj to; represent V`augha~ni H'omes;:,
Chai'rman' Yarling; askedr Steve Si'monson~ to. fil'li the Commission i`n~ on the detail's.
M'r. Simonson informed' the Commission the Preliminary Plat has been approved' and
the proposed sign does meet the size requirements of the Zoning Ordinance
and the Overlay Ordinance. Mr. Simonson also said there will be no lights
shining toward the traffic on Jack Hays Boulevard. (The Commission members had
received a diagram of the proposed sign in their packets.)
David Allen questioned whether or not the sign on the corner of Green Valley
Road is lighted.
Chairman Yarling asked if there was an objection to lights.
David Allen replied he was asking because he wanted to check on the conformity
of this sign with other signs along the same road.
Chairman Yarling asked if the sign conforms to the Overlay Ordinance. Steve
Simonson replied the Overlay Ordinance does not speak specifically to the
lighting of temporary development signs.
Merwin Willman commented he doesn't believe we have allowed lighted temporary
development signs in the past.
Rob Sulu, who is associated with the Thistle Creek Subdivision and who was among
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the citizens present at the meeting, asked to speak. Mr. Sult remarked that
the sign proposed by Vaughan Homes is technically an off-site directional sign,
that Vaughan Homes does not own the property where they are proposing to locate
the sign, and that Greenshire Oaks is not part of the subdivision.
Merwin Willman asked Rob Sult what his point was and Steve Simonson informed
Mr. Sult that Greenshire Oaks is part of the overall subdivision. -
Rob Sult stated he was pointing out a technicality but he has no objection to
the sign.
There was more discussion on the lighting with Bob Andrews reading from Article
XVIII, Section 1.2 on Page 25 of the Zoning Ordinance: "Temporary Signs: A
temporary sign pertaining to the lease, rental or sale of ,premises or structure
located thereon is permitted in all districts when located on such premises or
structure. Such signs shall not be lighted, and shall not exceed fifteen (15)
square feet in area. No permit is required."
Steve Simonson then read from Article XVIII, Section 1.3 on page 25 of the
Zoning Ordinance: "Development Signs: "Ground .Signs" announcing or describing
a legally approved subdivision or land development may be temporarily erected until
the subdivision is completed. Such signs shall not exceed three hundred (300)
square feet in area, and may. be indirectly lighted. Signs having flashing or
moving parts, are not permitted."
Discussion among the Commission members determined that Section 1.3 on Page 25 of
the Zoning Ordinance applied to this situation.
David Allen commented on the length of time mentioned in-the letter from Vaughan
Homes (sign will be removed when the subdivision is complete) and indicated. that
amount of time is too long.
David Allen also commented he thought in all' fairness we should not allow a lighted
sign.
Chairman Yarling pointed out it is conformance with the Ordinance and that's what
we have to address.- whether to allow it or not.
David Allen made the statement that .Vaughan is the developer and the builder and
Chairman Yarling affirmed that statement.
Donald Wilson, saying we should specifically note the indirect lighting requirement
to Vaughan Homes, made a motion to approve the request from Vaughan Homes to erect
a temporary development sign for Greenshire Oaks Subdivision-fora period of
twelve (12) months with additional extensions based upon a requested year by year
basis or until there is a 75% buildout of the subdivision. David Allen seconded
the motion and the vote was as follows:
AYES: T. Yarling, J. Harden, M. Willman, T. Brisgill, D. Allen, D. Wilson
NAYS: None
ABSTENTIONS: B. Andrews
Motion carried.
#10 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Specific Use Permit - #86-1
Chairman Yarling reminded everyone in the room that the Commission will receive
no more comments from the public.
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Donald Wilson commented he was impressed by .t he public. hearing meeting. Mr.
Wilson said. he felt it was very professional and that information from both
sides was well conveyed. Mr. Wilson went on to say the procedure of having
those who wanted to speak-sign in was both professional and equitable.
David Allen, looking over the petition signed by Oak Forest residents and
passed out during the public hearing by Doris Courtney, made several comments: -
(a) They say there is a precedent that the City does not allow churches in
residential area. Mr. Allen asked since when, stating most of the
churches are in a residential area. (Merwin Willman commented the
Council did disapprove a church on the south side of town, but he was
sure there was more to it than just being in a residential area.)
(b) They claim the City will need to provide extra police protection. Mr.
Allen commented it would have to be a pretty rowdy church.
(c) They also make comment on the need for fire protection. Mr. Allen said
we have to provide fire protection anyway.
(d) They mention the need for availability of water services. Mr. Allen
said water services would have to be provided anyway.
David Allen said he felt the real problem here for the residents of Oak Forest
is still the traffic situation.
Merwin Willman informed the Commission that since a petition had been signed,
even though it had not been filed with the City Secretary, there is a section
in the Zoning; Ordinance which may have some bearing on this particular request..
Steve Si+monson read' from the Zoning: Ordinance, Article XI X', Section 4.T, Para-
graph 2 on Page 3Y: "In eases when the Planning and Zoning: Commission's recom.-
mendation against proposed specific use permit or amendment, supplement, change,
or repeal: of the regulations or restrictions of the Zoning. Ordinance or the
boundaries of the District Map herein established', or when a written protest
against an amendment under consideration is filed with the office of the City
Secretary and signed by the owners of twenty percent (20%) of .more either of the
area of the lots included in such proposed change or those immediately adjoining
the same and extending two hundred (200) feet therefore from such amendment,
supplement, change, modification or repeal shall not become effective except by
the favorable vote of three-fourths (3/4) of the members of the City Council."
Chairman Yarling pointed out our-only concern is to either approve or disapprove
the request.
Bob Andrews asked Steve Simonson if he found out anything on traffic as far as
arterial roads and minor streets.
Steve Simonson said .basically the streets in Oak Forest are minor streets and
through traffic is to be discouraged.
David Allen remarked that regardless of what happens there are still only two
ways to ingress and egress.
There was discussion on how the area is zoned with Merwin Willman saying it is
zoned R-2, and also discussion on how many homes are already built in the subdi-
vision with one of the citizens present saying there are 58 homes already built.
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Chairman Yarling questioned the size of the membership at the Baptist Church and
indicated he had not noticed a traffic problem there. Steve Simonson said he
thought their membership was somewhere around 400 people.
David Allen commented that he had never seen a traffic problem at the Methodist
.Church. Merwin Willman remarked you do not go through a residential area to get
to the Methodist Church, but David Allen said yes you do.
There was a brief d iscussion on the Baptist and Methodist Churches in regard to
the minor and .arterial streets surrounding them.
David Allen asked if Circle Oak feeds into Golden Oak and if Golden Oak dead ends.
Steve Simonson replied yes to both questions.
Ty Brisgill asked if there was any input from the Department heads. Steve
Simonson replied their main concern is the traffic since FM 3009 is a 55 MPH
zone with no traffic signals at the intersection leading into Oak Forest.
Ty Brisgill asked if there was any concern about the drainage problems and Steve
Simonson replied there will be a major renovation on Crest Oak to alleviate the
drainage.
Bob Andrews read from the Zoning Ordinance, Article XX, Section 1.2, Page 32:
"Development Standards Required: The Planning and Zoning Commission in consider-
ing and determining their recommendation and the City Council in considering any
request for a: Specific Use Permit may require from the applicant, plans, infor-
mation, operating data and expert evaluation concerning the location, function
and characteristics of any building or use proposed." Mr. Andrews said the New
Creation Christian Fellowship had not provided the Planning and Zoning Commission
or City Council with the data, plans, information, etc. required.
Bob Andrews also remarked we are looking- two years down the road at the completion
of the first building which must mean we are looking at approximately one year
before the start of construction. In reference to those observations, Mr. Andrews
also read. from the Zoning ordinance, Article XX, Section 1.8, Page 33: "Develop-
ment: Following the issuance of a Specific Use Permit, the Building Official shall
insure that if the development is undertaken., it is completed in compliance with
said permit. However, if a Specific Use Permit has not been used within six (6)
months after the date granted, the permit is automatically cancelled Mr.
Andrews pointed out that according to this if we issued a Specific Use Permit, it
would be null and void before construction starts.
David Allen commented he thought there probably was a way to get around the six-
month time period.
Donald Wilson said he thought the New Creation Christian Fellowhhip had explained
their Five-Year Plan.
David Allen said he was in sympathy with the property owners insofar as they feel
they have not gotten what they were promised for the frontage of Oak Forest Sub-
division. However., as David Allen pointed out, that is between them and the
developer and. is not a consideration in this Specific Use Permit request.
David Allen remarked he could think of nothing nicer to have in your neighborhood
than a church. Mr. Allen went on to say those wanting to build the church have
indicated their desire for cooperation with the City and the residents and he
personally saw no objection.
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Bob Andrews commented his objection was not that it's a church but rather the.
amount of acreage involved and. just giving Carte Blanche on that acreage.
Chairman Yarling pointed out the permit could go building by building.
Bob Andrews commented the water system will have to be furn fished and residentia l
dwellings would provide more money to offset the cost of this water system.
David Allen noted the City is getting nothing now.
Bob Andrews responded to that by saying the City needs the tax base to draw
revenue for streets, etc.
Donald Wilson said he felt the size and acreage of the property have nothing to
do with the concern of the Planning and Zoning Commission and that the size and
acreage are not valid criteria for disapproval. Mr. Wilson said what we-need
to do is use our political and physical clout to get the widening of FM 3009 to
the top of the pile.
Chairman Yarling asked Pastor Copeland if they had any luck in obtaining an ease-
. ment to get access through to IH 35. Pastor Copeland replied they had talked to
the Ripps and at this point, it was still in discussion.
Ty Brisgill asked Steve Simonson if there is a possibility of extending the 30 foot
bridge to 60 foot. Mr. Simonson replied the majority of minor residential roads
in the City are already built to 30 feet and the City has no plans to improve
except to meet the drainage requirements.
There was more discussion on the traffic problem with Chairman Yarling asking if
there was a traffic analysis available. Steve Simonson replied only a partial
analysis, but he would check on it further and he could' take a: traffic count of
h,is own this weekend'.
Donald Wilson commented no matter what is built there, you're stil!1! going; to have
a choke point as far as traffic and' we need to have some foresight.
Chairman Yarling reminded the Commission that when the Schertz Parkway is completed
it should help alleviate some of the traffic on FM 3009.
.Chairman Yarling said he would like to see more feedback from the Staff on traffic.
Bob Andrews suggested the request for the Specific Use Permit be tabled until the
next meeting so we can get some feedback.
Merwin Willman said he agrees, but he is also concerned about the 43 acres and
would like to see a Master Plan.
James Harden agreed on needing a Master Plan. Mr. Harden pointed out-they indi-
cated at the public hearing they would be building three facilities - (1) a
building for worship, (2) a gymnasium, and (3) a learning facility, and he feels
43 acres is a lot of land for these three buildings and we need to know what their
plans are for the .rest of the. land.
Bob Andrews made a motion to table Item #1O CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMP1ENDATION:
Specific Use Permit - #86-1 until the next regular meeting scheduled for November
25, 1986. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and the .vote was. unanimous in favor..
Motion carried.
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#11 GENERAL DISCUSSION
Ty Brisgill had a list of things to call to the attention of Steve Simonson and
the Commission:
(1) He commented. (according to the minutes) on the numerous times he had asked
about the signs for Woodland Oaks and had been told they were ordered. He
wanted to know when they were ordered and when they are expected to be here.
Merwin Willman suggested he ask City Council.
(2) Mr. Gilmore had told him he would check on the legality of stopping building
permits on second and third units of subdivisions when the first unit had
not been accepted. He wanted to know if Mr. Gilmore had gotten an answer
from the legal department.
(3) He asked about the street light at .Witten and Dimrock. Steve Simonson told
him he was trying to find out from CPS.
(4) He wanted to know if anything could be done about getting barricades or
reflectors on the north side of Dimrock at the culvert.
(5) He asked Steve Simonson if he was aware that Greenshire and Savannah Square
are both in need of traffic signs.
(6) He commented the bandit signs are not being placed 500 feet apart.
(7) He asked if the "Thistle Creek" sign at Beck Concrete is kosher.
Chairman Yarling informed the Commission that before too long they will be
receiving a letter of resignation from Donald Wilson due to conflicting schedules
between his employment and the Planning and Zoning meetings. Chairman Yarling
asked that we include a notice with the water bills that we are looking for appli-
cants and that we-pull previous applications.
Chairman Yarling said he appreciated the professionalism of the Commission at the
public hearing.
Merwin Willman suggested we continue the procedure of having those who wish to
speak sign in.
#12 ADJOURNMENT
Chairman Yarling adjourned the meeting at 9:27 P.M.
The next regularly scheduled meeting is November 25, 1986.
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