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11-25-1986 PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular session on Tuesday, November 25, 1986 at 7:00 P.M, in .the Municipal Complex Conference Room, 1400 Live Oak Road. Members present were as follows: PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION OTHERS PRESENT THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN J.L. STEWART BOB ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN S.R. SPURKOSKY JAMES HARDEN, SECRETARY JUDITH SPURKOSKY MERWIN WILLMAN JEAN STEWART TY BRISGILL DORIS COURTNEY DAVID ALLEN JOHN BOWMAN KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILP1AN RICHARD KRUETLER ROBERT BRINK MEMBERS AB$ENT GARY MCCARTNEY FRED HENSLEY DONALD WILSON LEO EDWARDS D. DECKER CITY STAFF JAMES TODD MARTHA HENNIG STEVE SIMONSON, PLANNING COORDINATOR JERRY HENNIG NORMA ALTHOUSE, RECORDING SECRETARY KERMIT HARBORTH, D.V.M. ELLIOT CUNNINGHAM ALFRED CONYUS WILLIAM ANDREWS PASTOR DAVID COPELAND #1 CALL TO ORDER Chairman Yarling called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. #2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Joint Public Hearing & Regular Session November 18, 1986 Ty Brisgill asked that on Page 9, Paragraph 8, the last word of Item (7) be changed from "kosher" to professional. David Allen commented that on Page 5, Paragraph 10, he had asked a question rather than making a statement. David Allen made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for the Joint Public Hearing & Regular Session November 18, 1986. Ty Brisgill seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. #3 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS There was none. #4 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Specific Use Permit - #86-1 Chairman Yarling asked Steve Simonson if there had been a traffic count taken. Steve Simonson reported to the Commission that a traffic count had been taken starting at 8:30 A.M. Saturday, November 22, 1986 and continuing through the 1 r weekend on the south side of FM 3009 north of the entrance to Crest Oak. Mr. Simonson said the count was 7,392 which worked out to an average of 7,000 plus for each day. Chairman Yarling asked if there had been a breakout of the .times and Steve Simonson replied no there had not. Steve Simonson went on to say the last traffic count on a weekday had been 9,000 plus. Chairman Yarling asked when that had been taken and Steve Simonson replied in June, 1986. Chairman Yarling then asked if there had been any feedback from .the applicant. Steve Simonson informed the Commission we had .asked them about a Master Plan which they have now furnished and also a copy .of their Certificate of Incorpora- tion and a copy of their list of .church officers. All the; Commission members received copies of the Certificate of•Incorporation and the list of church officers.. Steve Simonson gave a brief presentation on their Master Plan which consisted of the following: (a) a greenbelt buffer with a park (which they would be willing to share) as part of the entrance (b) worship center (c) recreation center (d) early learning center (e) various ballfields (f) ampitheater New Creation Christian Fellowship had also provided a chart on the breakout of their church starting with "The Word" and coming on down through the pastor, mem- bers, etc. Steve Simonson reminded the Commission the Fellowship had previously given us a breakdown of the projected completion dates for their buildings. Mr. Simonson added further that we-have the minutes and the petition. Chairman Yarling asked if there was any more Staff input and Steve Simonson replied no there was not. James Harden remarked on the fact that this is a big debt for new members of a church only one and one-half years old to be taking on. Ty Brisgill said his major concern is the traffic. Mr. Brisgill observed that although the Master Plan is well laid out, there are still only two ways to ingress and egress. James Harden remarked that we were told they would try to obtain alternative access either through to IH 35 or to Wiederstein Road.. P1r. Harden said he has talked to some of the people and that no one has really asked them. Mr. Harden also pointed out that the property owners really don't want to give. David Allen commented you cannot deny access because of the inadequacy of City streets - the problem will still be there. (2) David Allen-asked who owns the streets as far as repair and Steve. Simonson replied -the City does. David Allen, remarking on the fact the forty-three (43) acres would be tax exempt, said that was not our concern. Mr. Allen pointed out they have provided us with their tax exempt certificate from the Secretary of State. James Harden agreed it is not our concern who owns it, but how it is used. David Allen commented we cannot stop them from buying the land and went on to say :that as far.as the water and sewer is concerned, it would have to be provided any- way, even if residential dwellings were built on the same land. Mr. Allen said he. respects the objections of the. residents of Oak Forest, but the bottom line .is do we want to have a church in Schertz. Mr. Allen went on to say he had thought about it all week, he'wants to see this church in Schertz, and sees no reason to deny their request. Mr. Allen remarked that the City is going: to develop in the next several years regard less, and this would be a nice addition. James Harden commented we have to consider the best use of the land and they are in the wrong spot because there is not adequate access in that area. .David Allen repeated his question as to whether inadequate streets are a reason to deny the request. There was further discussion on the streets. Bob Andrews said he would love to see this development in Schertz, they have a well laid .out plan.,. but the streets in,0ak Forest are not adequate for this 'ingress and egress. Mr. Andrews went on to say that if a subdivision with 155 homes were to come into the same area, he would have the same objection and would require the developer to acquire better access. David Allen asked if the New Creation Chirstian Fellowship isn't the developer and Bob Andrews replied yes it is. David Allen then asked if a condition could be placed on the approval to require them to work with the City to get other streets or another way in there. James Harden noted we had suggested they get other access and bring it in writing to the public hearing so we could show proof. Mr. Harden said we informed them it would be a stumbling block ahd it still is. Bob Andrews remarked. that the requirement for access has not been fulfilled. James Harden added that we have potential developers along FM 3009 waiting for the Schertz Parkway to be built so there is better access. David Allen asked what the possibilities are for better access. Steve Simonson replied the possibilities are limited - (1) Larry Thomas had made no promises, (2) Green Valley Road needs improving and (3) you have to work with Cibolo to get access through to Wiederstein. Mr. Simonson said enlarging Crest Oak is the logical solution, but the owners of land north of Crest Oak are diffi- cult to work with. Merwin Willman commented he thinks a Specific Use Permit is the wrong vehicle. (3) Mr. Willman went on to say a Specific Use Permit is for one specific use and so far we have been informed of at least three uses and possibly four. Mr. Willman . also pointed out a Specific Use Permit is for a specific time period and this is the wrong vehicle for this. David Allen asked if there is something we can do. Merwin Willman replied maybe we could suggest they come in for some type of zoning. Mr. Willman said the construction required would be similar to that for a subdivi- sion and we could not let it develop without construction plans and without being platted. David Allen asked if we have a zoning for a church. Merwin Willman replied per= haps a PUD for religious worship, religious training and related activities would be appropriate. Merwin Willman stated he connot recommend', approval of a Specific Use .Permit .according to the Ordinance. David Allen asked what if at this -time it is approved. with a rider that a committee formed from representatives of City Council, Planning and Zoning and-the Homeowner's Association try to work with them and help resolve this in the fashion suggested. Merwin Willman said he would be against it - it's up to the church. David Allen commented we didn't take that attitude with the development of Schertz Parkway. Merwin Willman said that was a City project. David Allen asked if we can get all these people working together. Merwin Willman replied there is nothing in our Ordinance preventing them from bringing in a request for another type of zoning, with the exception of a Specific use Permit. David Allen remarked we will probably get another petition-type document from the citizens. Merwin Willman suggested. they go to City Council. David Allen, noting we're all intelligent people, asked can't we get together and work this out. Merwin Willman reminded him we have to make a recommendation on their request for a Specific Use Permit. Mr. Willman said he was against the request because it would require construction plans similar to a.subdivision and it is not in our comprehensive plan for the City. Chairman Yarling asked what the current zoning is on the acreage and Steve Simonson replied R-2. David Allen commented we're back in the same situation as the request from Coy Simmons. Ty Brisgill remarked we have certain procedures. Bob Andrews indicated he could not recommend approval. (4) David Allen still suggested we recommend the appointment of a committee. .Chairman Yarling reminded the Commission the Fellowship can appeal through City Council. Ty Brisgill commented he didn't know if an eighty (80') foot right-of-way. would. even be sufficient for egress and ingress. - David Allen remarked you still have the same problem regardless of what is built on that acreage. Chairman Yarling asked if their request for a Specific Use Permit was in con- formance. Merwin Willman replied they only showed us one building the first time they talked to us. David Allen contended the first time they talked to us they laid out their plans and that as far as presenting three buildings and then tonight showing four build- ings, that may be 25 years on down the road and- we had asked for only a 10 year plan. There was a brief discussion on this matter. Merwin Willman made a motion to recommend that the request for a Specific Use Permit for the 43.128 acres in the Oak Forest Subdivision be denied for the following reasons: (1) A Specific Use Permit when issued is for one specific use and with a time limit. So far we have been informed of at least three uses for this acreage. (2) Plans presented to this Commission indicate the development is a major deve lopment which will require detailed plans for streets, lighting, sidewalks, curb and gutters, drainage, water and sewer lines, entrance and exits, all the planning for the construction of a subdivision. (3) Plan presented for the 43.128 acres does not conform with the City's com- prehensive plan for this area. James Harden seconded the motion and the vote was as follows:. AYES: B. Andrews, J. Harden, M. Willman, T. Brisgill NAYS: D. Allen ABSTENTIONS: T. Yarling Motion carried. Chairman Yarling reminded the members present from the New Creation Christian Fellowship that they can appeal through the City Council. #5 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Cancellation of December 23, 1986 Regular Planning and Zoning Meeting David Allen made a motion to cancel the regular meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission scheduled for December 23, 1986. Bob Andrews .seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. (5) #6 GENERAL DISCUSSION Chairman Yarling informed the Commission a letter of resignation from Donald Wilson had been received effective immediately. Steve Simonson informed the Commission there is a public hearing on the Zoning _ Ordinance scheduled for December 10, 1986. Mr. Simonson said it does not effect the Zoning Map. Ken Greenwald informed the Commission that the tree lighting ceremony will be held December 4th at 6:00 P.M. Ken Greenwald also informed the Commission that the Mayor and th.e City Manager -had been in court on November 24, 1986 concerning the Parker case. Mr. Greenwald said we lost Phase I, the Judge ruled against us. Mr. Greenwald also said, how~- ever, the TML attorney will be appealing,. At 7:50 P.M. Chairman Yarling called for, a short recess. The meeting resumed at 7:57 :P .M. Merwin Willman asked if anything. had been done about the Sycamore Creek .Apartment signs. Steve Samonson replied he had written them a letter giving them a time frame of December 1, 1.986 to take down the signs or ask for an extension. Mr. Simonson said if we hear nothing from. them, we will pull the signs. Merwin Willman noted that on the corner of FM 78 and First Street across from the Shoe Repair there is a sign advertising the rental of a backhoe. Mr. Willman commented that the sign can be taken down by anyone. There was a brief discussion on the trailer behind Oak Forest and .the fact that it was supposed to be used as a construction trailer, but now someone is living there. Steve Simonson was asked to check on it. Merwin Willman asked what the procedures are for the Planning and Zoning Commission holding an Executive Session. Bob Andrews said it's the same procedures as outlined for a City Council Executive Session. James Harden said with a quorum present it has to be an open meeting. Merwin Willman noted sometimes we have a goof in the Ordinance which is embarassing. Chairman Yarling said from a legal standpoint that's not an appropriate reason for holding an Executive Session. Bob Andrews repeated again that we are bound by the same laws as City Council. Chairman Yarling said it states in your book when you can hold an Executive Session. There was a brief discussion on this matter. Chairman Yarling commented we will have lots of applicants for the Planning and Zoning Commission and James Harden affirmed that statement. Merwin Willman said he feels we need to improve on the Specific Use Permit, it needs (6) a more detailed explanation. As a reference, Mr. Willman pointed out that one problem with the Mobile Home Ordinance is that it is not specific enough about saying R.V.'s will not be in a Mobile Home Park. David Allen remarked that Mervin Willman had made a good point in the suggestion of a PUD for the development of the type of complex the Fellowship wants to build. Mr. Allen stated further that a PUD indicates you can do most anything as long as it's approved. Steve Simonson commented the Fellowship had only mentioned a church at first. James Harden said it was in the wrong area. David Allen added that you`ll have the same problem regardless of what's built there. Following this there was more discussion on traffic. Merwin Willman said we made a mistake going to a public hearing on this request too soon. Mr. Willman said we need to-take more time - if we say we need a Master Plan, then make sure we get one. Chairman Yarling asked hlerwin Willman if the application had been for the Kramer Tract, would he have had any heartache with that. Merwin Willman replied maybe. James Harden said this was the second tract of land the Fellowship had been offered. The first tract was the Kermit Harborth property, but he and the Fellowship could not come together on financial terms. Bob Andrews commented his only objection is the traffic. David Allen remarked he would like to have the church close t6 him. Bob Andrews agreed with Merwin Willman about needing more time. Mr. Andrews said more research was done after the recommendation was tabled than was done ahead of time. Mr. Andrews also said we need more time for research and to make sure the individuals have what they need. Mervin Willman stated that in Article XIX, Section 2.2.2 of the Zoning Ordinance there are four items to be considered for rezoning and if they are not met, the rezoning should be denied. Bob Andrews read again from~the Zoning Ordinance, Article XX, Section 1.2, Page 32: "Development Standards Required: The Planning and Zoning Commission in con- sidering and determining their recommendation and the City Council in considering any request for a Specific Use Permit may require from the applicant, plans, information, operating data and expert evaluation concerning the location, function and characteristics of any building or use proposed." Mr. Andrews said we should look at all that in the future. Ty Brisgill remarked, in reference to not having enough information, that some members are in the learning process, but in their defense, everytime the Fellowship came in they talked about more plans. Mr. Brisgill said Steve Simonson should .not be faulted for recommending a Specific Use Permit if the fact that they were going to build a church is the only information he had. 1 David Allen made the observation that it could have started with only a church but when they saw all the acreage they made more plans. Bob Andrews said we were right in pushing them for their other plans on the rest of the acreage. James Harden commented this type of thing will happen again and Bob Andrews said if it does, we will table it until we have researched it. Merwin Willman said he considers three major areas in his. research: (1) health, (2) safety and (3) welfare.. Chairman Yarling pointed out the similarity between this and Greenshire when we suggested a PUD. David Allen asked the age of the Baptist Church and Steve Simonson said he thought it started in the 1950's. James Harden asked if Coy Simmons wouldn't have platted and pulled the 43 acres out and Steve Simonson replied none of these areas are platted. Chairman Yarling, talking to Steve Simonson, questioned if they come back with another plan will it not be a Specific Use Permit request and David Allen asked Mr. Simonson to check on that. Ty Brisgill asked Steve Simonson if Mr. Gilmore had heard anything on the legality of stopping building permits on additional sections of subdivisions when the first section had not been accepted. Mr. Simonson replied Mr. Gilmore had been tied up with court and he had not had an opportunity to ask him. Ty Brisgill reported they did get their street signs in Woodland Oaks. David Allen asked if the Committee is still in existence to bring industry into the City. Ken Greenwald replied it is the Industrial Development Committee and as far as he knows, it still exists. David Allen commented he thought the Fellowship could be helped by a committee like this and this would also attract other things like home buyers and businesses. David Allen asked if we can't work with the Fellowship to help them find a suitable piece of property. - Ken Greenwald said he would check with Chuck Sharpe. Chairman Yarling told the Commission they might want to consider someone fr.o~m the Schermerville area for the vacancy on the Commission. Ken Greenwald said he would let Mrs. Fenner know about the vacancy. Steve Simonson asked the Commission if it was appropriate to ask~~the applicants for the Plano ing and Zoning Commission to attend several meeting to get a feel of what goes on and the Commission had no objections.. Chairman Yarling said he would be out of state on December 10, 1986 when the public hearing is scheduled. (8) #7 ADJOURNMENT Chairman Yarling adjourned the meeting at 8:47 P.M. The next regularly scheduled meeting is December 9, 1986. A public hearing is scheduled for December 10, 1986. ~9)