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06-10-1986 PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES The ~chertz Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular session on June 10, 1986 at 7:00 P.M, in the Municipal Complex Conference Room, Those present were as follows: PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION CITY STAFF THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN STEVE SIMONSON, PLANNING COORDINATOR 60B ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN NORMA ALTUOUSE, RECORDING .SECRETARY JAMES HARDEN, SECRETARY MERWIN WILLMANOTHERS PRESENT TY BRISGILL DAVID ALLEN ROB SULT, CROW DEVELOPMENT DONALD WILSON DON RYDEN, LARRY THOMAS CO. KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN LARRY THOMAS., LARRY THOMAS CO. BEN .BREWER, ASSOCIATED ARCHITECTS DON MCCRARY, HENRY BAIN ENGINEERS .RAY STANHOPE, COUNCILMAN #1 CALL TO ORDER Vice-Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M. and turned it over to Chairman Yarling who arrived within seconds thereafter. #2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES.: A. Regular Session May 27, 1986 David Allen made a motion to approve the minutes for the regular session of May 27, 1986. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. B. Special-Session June 3, 1986 Merwin Willman pointed out that under Item #11, Paragraph 4, Line 2, Page 3 - 500 feet should .be changed to read "5,000 feet". David Allen made a mot-ion to approve the minutes, as amended, for the Special Session June 3, 1986. Merwin Willman seconded the motion and the vote was unani- mous in favor. Motion carried. #3 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS Rob Sult of Crow Development was present: Mr. Sult said he had received a letter from Steve Simonson dated June 4, 1986 informing him of the Planning and Zoning Commission's decision at their meeting June 3, 1986 to rescind permission for erection of Thistle Creek bandit signs. Mr.. Sult explained he was here to appeal his case. Rob Sult asked if there had been a change in the ordinance. Bob Andrews replied that the original granting of permission. for Thistle Creek bandit signs was an oversight on the part of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Mr. Andrews went on to explain that the original intent was for developers to advertise their wares along FM 3009 (the 3 miles from IH 35 to FM 78) according to the regulations of the FM 3009 Overlay Ordinance. However, as Mr. Andrews stressed, with the potential of ten builders, the Commission goofed by not originally stipulating builders only. Mr. Andrews further stated this policy is to protect the aesthetic view and prevent wall-to-wall signs. Rob.Sult commented his company has a financial committment for three years worth of bandit signs. Mr. Sult also made reference to~Vaughan Homes, pointing out. Mr. Vaughan is a developer as well as a builder. Bob Andrews emphasized that Mr. Vaughan could have a~considerably larger number of signs if he advertised his subdivisions with bandit signs, but that subdivisions most normally have entrance signs. David Allen,~expressing surprise at Rob Sult's objections, noted that the Commis- sion is establishing a policy-and pointed out to Mr. Sult that he does have th.e big sign advertising Thistle Creek. Mr. Sult said he appreciated that fact. Rob Sult asked if the ordinance prohibits signs on feeder roads. Mr. Sult was informed it does not. David-Allen .repeated his previous statement that--the Commission is trying to establish a policy and that most subdivisions have entrance signs anyway. Rob Sult thanked the Commission for their. time. #4 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Associated Architects - Request to Put Entrance Sign at Greenshire Ben Brewer and Don McCrary were at the meeting to represent Greenshire. Ben Brewer brought in diagrams of the proposed entrance showing it as envisioned with the sidewalks included. Mr. Brewer said it is the owner's interest in leaving the bluff .high until the road is widened. Ben Brewer described the sign as 10' from the grade elevation, the area of the sign being 40 square feet per side and the Greenshire logo on either side. There was discussion on the elevation of the sign in relation to the fence, .on the road slope in-relationship to Woodland Oaks, about the island being lowered and about how visible the sign will be. Steve Simonson remarked that most of the developers along FM 3009 have done a real good job of adhering to the Overlay Ordinance as far as their entrance signs are concerned. Ty Brisgill asked about the .towers and Ben Brewer said they are approximately 19' on top~of the escarpment and will be lighted at night. James Harden asked how far back they are and Ben Brewer said 80' from the center line of the road which David Allen indicated means .approximately 60' back. Ty Brisgi.ll asked if the sign will have lights and Ben Brewer replied yes - on the ground. David Allen made a motion to approve the request..from Associated Architects for a variance on their entrance sign at Greenshire provided it is in accordance with the drawings~presented.at the meeting on June l0, I986. James Harden seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. .Motion carried. David Allen, obseriting that the signs in time will require maintenance, asked who was going to take care of them. (2) Chairman Yarling replied that the Sign Ordinance would cover that particular situation. BenBrewer stressed that the sign for Greenshire will be made of high quality materials. Merwin Willman noted that the biggest share of subdivisions have.a Homeowners' Association. Ty Brisgill asked, in reference to the ordinance, what the towers come under and Steve Simonson replied they are part of the entrance. #5 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: .Realty World - Request to Erect Bandit Signs -Along FM 3009 Advertising Garage Sale Bob Andrews disqualified himself from the discussion and vote on Item #5. David Allen, affirming it was for a good cause (to benefit SAFES) and for one day only, made a motion to approve the request from Realty World for erection of bandit signs along FM 3009 advertising a garage sale on June 21, 1986. .James Harden seconded the motion and. the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. At 7:33 P.M. Chairman Yarling called for a short break. The meeting was reconvened at 7:37 P.M. At this time Chairman Yarling went to Item 7a _ Addendum to Agenda. #7a. Tabled Item: CONSIDER AND MADE RECOMMENDATION: Zoning Change #82 David Allen asked if the formal request had been made and the fees paid. Steve Simonson replied yes. Mr. Simonson also informed the Commis ion this item had been tabled far lack.of information - instead of a PUD, it is broken into Office and Pro- fessional, Multi-Family. and R-5B. Larry Thomas; and Don Ryden°~were at the meeting to represent Northwood. David Allen commented there are three zonings, but we do not have any reference as to how many acres of-this and how many acres of that. Steve Simonson asked if Mr. A11en meant by metes and bounds. Merwin Willman remarked that the map has .no bearing on the rezoning. Steve Simonson pointed-:out that if the zoning is approved, at the time a master plan is submitted, we~wou.ld sit down and work out the particulars. Donald Wilson arrived at 7:42 ~P.M. There was some discussion on whether or not more zoning for office space is needed and also on the R-5B zoning. Steve Simonson had a chart for the Commission to look at of the lots in Savannah Square. Mr. Simonson had color coded the chart. according to different lot sizes. Steve Simonson informed the Commission they had-given an R-5B zoning to Savannah Square and it ended up with different size lots and density - very few lots at on]y (3) 5,000 square feet.. Merwin Willman commented we can't seem to convince everyone there are very few lots at a'n1y 5,000 square feet. Steve Simonson said you have to take into .consideration the curves and cul-de-sacs and realize that you cannot stick small lots in these places. Bob Andrews remarked he would like to see the wording changed from an average of a 5,000 square foot lot size to a 5,000 square-foot minimum lot size. Bob Andrews asked.Larry Thomas if he had any kind of time frame in mind of when he anticipated the need for Office and Professional and Multi-Family to justify the request. Larry. Thomas replied they are trying to stay ahead pretty much and it would probably be after the subdivision was built out - approximately three years. Mr. Thomas said, however, they need to represent to the homeowners at the beginning an idea of what will. be built there. Larry Thomas passed out a brochure to the Commission showing his idea of low density office sites: and explained the advantages of such a concept:: Mr: Thomas said he has one in-Austin that has been very well received. David.Allen asked Mr. Thomas if-he had looked.at his property last week after the heavy rains. Mr. Thomas replied he considers it a challenge. Ty Brisgill asked i.f it is conceivable that the Office and Professional and Multi- Family~will be in a different location .after the zoning is approved. Merwin Willman replied yes and said until we have a Master Plan the acres are pretty much up in the air. There was a brief discussion on this. Chairman Yarling asked if it was our recommendation they go for three zonings and Steve Simonson replied yes, it could have been a PIfD, but we recommended three zonings. Ty Brisgill asked if there had been any more feedback from the letters we sent out about the public hearing. Steve Simonson:repTied no: Mr. Simonson said .eighteen letters .had been sent out and six sent .back. responses - five in favor and one against: David All en made a motion ~to recommen.d.approval to City Council of Zoning Change #82 {77.19-acres - Northwood~Subdivision~ as indicated generally on the map dated April, 1986, Job No. 2232.00. Ty Brisgill interrupted to ask if we could have the acreage -indicated. David Allen modified the motion-to include: Broken down specifically to 4.7 acres of Office and Professional, 11.7 acres of Multi-Family and the remainder to R-5B. Ty Brisgill seconded-the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. Bob Andrews .told Larry Thomas he would like to see something indicating what's hap- pening to Green Valley Road. . David>Allen asked Larry Thomas. to take a look at-the streets in Northwood. Mr. Allen said there are several that do not provide any means for people to get out in an emergency situation. Larry Thomas said he would look at it in detail. Steve Simonson commented we will review all that when the plats are brought in. (4) #6. CONSIDER AND MAKE REGOMMENDAl'ION: Proposed Changes'~to Planning & Zoning Rules of Procedure Chairman Yarling requested we-get a current copy of Robert's Rules if it's within the City's budget. Merwin Willman said his recommendations were based on questions that have come up frequently over the years. The Commission reviewed and di: cussed the recommended changes to the Planning & Zoning Rules of Procedure and~made their suggestions. David Allen made a motion ,that the changes to the Planning & Zoning Rules of Pro- cedure written up and suggested by Merwin Willman. be recommended to City Council for ,approval. Bob. Andrews seconded the motion and vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried. The Commission thanked Merwin Willman for a job well-done. At this time Councilmen Ken Greenwald-and Ray Stanhope come to the Conference Room following a meeting in the Council: Chambers. #7 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Proposed ChanOes to Zoning Ordinance The Commission reviewed and discussed the recommended changes and made their sug- gestions. #8 GENERAL DISCUSSLON Bob Andrews asked~Steve Simonson if he had checked on t{ie City's schedule for clean- ing out their "new dump" (Cut-Off Park). Steve Simonson replied he had checked on it but got no answer. .Bob Andrews then asked Ken Greenwald the same question, but Mr. Greenwald said City Council had not had a meeting yet. Bob Andrews asked Steve Simonson if any action had_been taken on the Park Benedict sign along FM 3009: Steve Simonson said..he had spoken with them and asked them to send a letter. requesting permission to put up the sign: Steve Simonson informed the Commission he had a letter from. Ed Melton, Emergency .Management Coordinator and Fire Chief, pointing-out the danger (in case of emergency) being 'posed by people placing-chain link ..fences .around their front yards. Mr. Simonson said the Fire Chief-would like for the'Commission to consider putting some- thing irr the ordinance prohibiting such fences. Chairman Yarling asked for this item to be put-on the agenda: of the next regularly scheduled meeting. Steve Simonson, .commenting on the house on Cyrus McCormick with streamers, informed the Commission the City Inspector had asked them:to-take down the~•streamers or if they wanted to keep them up to come in and ask~for:permission, Donald Wilson remarked that before the state did it's work on Jack Hays Boulevard, there were white lines along the side used as guidelines by bicyclers and joggers .and those lines have not reappeared. Mr. Wilson asked if we could have-them put back. Steve Simonson said he would check into it. Donald Wilson also thought it would be appropriate to suggest.. that the Police Depart- meet use triangles or at least some more visible means on the road when there is an (5) accident. Mr'. Wilson said-oncoming traffic cannot see the flares until they are right on them. Merw~n Willman asked if .there were any public hearings scheduled. Steve Simonson replied the one for Forbes will coincide with the annexation. Bob Andrews, speaking,to'Ken Greenwald,-said he assumed that as a result of severed water service to Cibolo, the Joint Commission had also been severed. Ken Greenwald said he is always willing to sit down and talk. Ty Brisgill asked if the fruitstand on IH 35 is in Cibolo's ETJ and Steve Simonson said yes - we patrol the area but have no control. Ty Brisgill asked if we require handicap spaces and Steve Simonson replied we require a ramp. Ty Brisgill said that~Lone Star has no ramp. Ty Brisgill asked to have his package saved since he will-not be able to attend the meeting on June 17, 1986. David Allen asked what kind of flood'we had. Steve. Simonson informed him it was .classified as a plus 100 year flood for this local area. Mr. Simonson also said the only trouble we had was at Elbel. David Allen remarked how nicely the Cibolo Creek had flowed. Steve Simonson noted that the CDR: and Windy Meadow drainage ponds held like they should. There were some brief comments on Mel Adler's property and it's need for drainage. David Allen commented: on the site of the proposed restaurant being built by the Saundersons and it's condition after the heavy rains., Steve Simonson said the engineers on-the project were aware that the land would have to be brought up out of the floodplain. Bob Andrews pointed out that in areas such as Pecan where the drainage has been worked on, it did not flood. Steve Simonson informed the Commission the meeting for June 11, 1986 has been cancelled. The workshop for the Sehermervilie area is scheduled far J.une_1~7, 1986 at 7:00 P.M. The next-regularly scheduled meeting is June 24, 1986. #9 ADJOURNMENT Chairman Yarling adjourned the meeting at .9 :48 P.M. ~6)