02-24-1987'
`
PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES
� The Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular session
. on Tuesday, February 24, 1987 at 7:00 P.M. in the Municipal
Complex Conference Room, 1400 Live Oak Road. Those present were
as follows:
PLANNING-AND ZONING COMMISSION OTHERS PRESENT
THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN
BOB ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN
JAMES HARDEN, SECRETARY
MERWIN WILLMAN
TY BRISGILL
KEITH VAN DINE
KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN
MEMBERS ABSENT
DAVID ALLEN
CITY STAFF
STEVE SIMONSON, ASST. CITY MGR.
#1 CALL TO ORDER
RICHARD OEMUNBRUN
EUGENE BRAWNER
CHARLES KOEHLER
ROBERT W. WUEST
DENNIS D. KUSAK
TOM FLORES
RON JAROSZEWSKI
MIKE MOORE
Chairman Yarling called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.
#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. Regular Session February 10, 1987
Bob Andrews suggested that on Page 5 at the end of Paragraph 5
after "1700 square feet" the word "homes" be added. �
Bob Andrews made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for
the regular session February 10, 1987. Merwin Willman seconded
the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried.
'
B. Special Session February 17, 1987
Bob Andrews asked that on Page 3 at the end of Paragraph 11 the
words "from the parking lot" be changed to read "from the right-
of-way".
Bob Andrews made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for
the special session February 17, 1987. Merwin Willman seconded
the motion and the vote was as follows:
, 71 �-WFF I __i____ --- ______
Ayes: B. Andrews, J. Harden,
K. Van Dine
Nays:` None
Abstentions: T. Yarling
The motion carried.
~
�
`
M. Willman, T. Brisgill,
#3 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS
There was none.
#4 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Johnson-Dempsey &
Associates, Inc. - Request for Sign
Variance
Richard DeMunbrun of Johnson-Dempsey & Associates was at the
meeting to represent this request. Mr. DeMunbrun also introduced
Eugene Brawner, Charles Koehler, Robert Wuest and Dennis Kusak.
Mr. DeMunbrun said they are building a Pic N Pac, currently under
construction, on FM 78 near the entrance to Lone Oak across from
the Pizza Hut.
Richard DeMunbrun gave a brief presentation to the Commission
pointing-out the proposed location of the Pic N Pac (on the
corner) and the proposed location of the sign (on the island).
Mr. DeMunbrun said the sign is a two-legged sign and the size is
considerably less than the maximum size allowed in the ordinance.
Mr. DeMunbrun said they are asking for a variance on the front
and side setbacks, however, because of the configuration of the
parking lot and the flow of traffic around the island. Mr.
DeMunbrun said without the variance the sign would have to be
located in the middle of the parking lot.
Richard DeMunbrun said they are also requesting a height variance
from the authorized 15' to 18' and requesting two auxiliary price
signs be allowed to be placed below the "Mobile" sign.
Bob Andrews noted that in the picture the sign shows one
auxiliary sign and they are requesting two,auxiliary signs and
Mr. Andrews asked why. Richard DeMunbrun said there is nothing
in the catalog to accommodate four prices on a single auxiliary
sign and there are four kinds of fuel, thus requiring four
prices.
Bob Andrews asked the size of the auxiliary signs and Richard
DeMunbrun replied they are approximately 4" high and 3 1/2" wide.
Chairman Yarling asked if this will � obstruct vision and Mr.
DeMunbrun replied that's why they Ore asking for . height
variance.
Ty Brisgill asked why they chose that side and not the corner to
locate the sign and Mr. DeMunbrun replied because the ordinance
requires a visibility triangle.
-2-
'
`
Chairman Yarling asked how high the canopy will be and Richard
DeMunbrun said the bottom will be 15' high and the top will be
18' high.
Bob Andrews asked if theyblacktopped the bar ditch and Mr.
DeMunbrun replied yes.
Bob� Andrews also questioned him about the island and Mr.
DeMunbrun said they had planned on making it concrete but it was
only going to be painted in with stripes because of the highway
and drainage work that's planned for the future by the Highway
Department.
Ty Brisgill asked how the City interprets from what point they
measure the visibility triangle and Steve Simonson said the City
uses the property line. '
Ty Brisgill then asked about the Stop sign and Ken Greenwald said
that would be a question of where the current blacktop is versus
the actual right-of-way.
Steve Simonson once again outlined the variances being requested
and gave their applicable location in the Sign Ordinance:
. (1) Height variance - Page 9, Para. 5a.(2)
(The authorized height is 151, they are asking for 18' height.)
(2) Side & front setback variance - Page 9, Paras. 5a.(3) and
5a.(4)
(The authorized front setback is 21.45', they are asking for a
front setback of 2'.)
(The authorized side setback is 50', they are asking for a side
setback of 12'.)
(3) Auxiliary signs variance - Page 1O, Para. 5c.(6)
(The ordinance does not allow auxiliary signs, they are asking
for two auxiliary signs.)
Chairman Yarling asked if we had allowed signs on other canopies
and Steve Simonson replied yes we had but the Sign Ordinance was
not in effect at that time.
There was a brief discussion on the proposed number of signs
' versus the number of signs allowed in the ordinance.
Bob Andrews asked if the sign will be eternally lighted and
Richard DeMunbrun replied it is not lighted twenty-four hours, it
is on a time clock.
Bob Andrews asked if the only sign to face FM 78 would be the
"Mobile" sign and the price auxiliary signs and Mr. D«*Mun .run
said no, there would also be a Pic N Pac sign on the side of the
canopy facing FM 78.
-3-
,
`
There was a question on the frontage and Steve Simonson said it
was 180+ feet.
Chairman asked if this didn't fit in with the Pizza Hut sign and
Steve Simonson said yes it does basically. Mr. Simonson did
mention, however, that the Sign Ordinance requires conformity by
1990. �
Merwin Willman remarked that when he looked through his package
he couldn't figure out where this sign was supposed to be located
and that all they were asking for in their letter was one
variance. �
Bob Andrews said he was basically inclined to agree. Mr. Andrews
pointed out to Mr. DeMundrun that he lives in Lone Oak, goes by
the proposed sign location everyday, but couldn't determine for
sure what they were requesting. Mr. Andrews went on to say the
Planning and Zoning Commision needs some time to research this in
order to make their decision.
Richard DeMundrun told the Commission if there are any questions
he will be glad to answer them, and if not, Mr. DeMundrun said he
will leave the decision in the hands of the Commission.
Bob Andrews asked if there was any possibility of eliminating the
second price sign, but Richard DeMundrun replied they cannot seem
to find anything else available in the catalog.
Chairman Yarling Jokingly asked Mr. DeMundrun if we grant the
variance will he be able to comply by 1990.
Steve Simonson commented everyone will be coming in for a
variance.
Bob Andrews asked Steve Simonson what kind of right-of-way there
will be after FM 78 is widened and Mr. Simonson said he thought
FM 78 would probably be widened to five lanes so there will still
be plenty of right-of-way.
Ken 8reenwald commented that if you look where the telephone
Poles are located, that is the extent of the right-of-way.
After a brief discussion on the right-of-way, Bob Andrews made a
motion to recommend we table the request from Johnson-Dempsey &
Associates for a sign variance until the next regularly scheduled
meeting of March 10, 1987 so we can make some determination as to
the requested variances in relation to our Sign Ordinance.
Merw -in Willman seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in
favor. Motion carried. �
Bob Andrews sdggested the discussion of variances in relation to
the Sign Ordinance be on the agenda of the next scheduled
meeting.
-4-
'
`
At this time Chairman Yarling said he would like to back up to
Item #3 on the agenda: CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS.
Mr. Yarling noted there are some people here representing
Woodland Oaks and although they are not on the agenda, he thinks
we can allow them to speak.
Tom Flores, Ron Jaroszewski and Mike Moore were'at the meeting to
represent Woodland Oaks.
Tom Flores brought up the fact that a couple of weeks ago they
brought before us a Development Plan for Woodland Oaks and a
Preliminary Plat for Woodland Oaks, Unit 4 and both were tabled.
Mr. Flores further stated that they and we are all aware of the
drainage problem on Dimrock and pointed out that the greatest
part of the solution lies in the approval of Unit 4.
Chairman Yarling asked what has been done and Merwin Willman
replied we can't do much until Council tells us it's okay and
until we get the City Engineer's feedback on this drainage
problem.
Tom Flores commented that nowhere in the requirements did they
see that the drainage problem had to be solved on the Preliminary
Plat. Mr. Flores said those types of problems are usually worked
out in the final design stage.
Bob Andrews asked them to explain the final design stage. Mike
Moore said the Preliminary Plat is usually the starting point for
getting the streets and the lot configuration and everything on
the plat you need for finaling. Mr. Moore then said if Planning
and Zoning approves the Preliminary Plat they go to the
engineering stage based on that approval and engineer the streets
and drainage and everything else, and once the City Engineer
approves that, then they go to the final platting stage. Mr.
Moore further stated that all the approval of the Preliminary
Plat does is give them permission to proceed with design and get
City approval on the rest of the engineering itself.
Merwin Willman again pointed out that Council gave us a letter
asking us not to act until the drainage problem is solved.
Steve Simonson. questioned Ken Greenwald as to whether or not he
could ask Council to lift the restriction.
Bob Andrews
said
he
thought it had been a Preliminary Plan and a
Final Plat
for
Unit
4 that had been brought before us and Mike
Moore said
no it
was
a Preliminary Plat for Unit 4.
Mike Moore reiterated the fact that they are trying to
massive drainage problem and the only way to cure it
Unit 4. Mr. Moore said we want to see this done and
get started.
-5-
solve the
is through
we need to
Bob Andrews n rews remarked we draw our information from the learned
ones and if we go against their advice, we are not doing our Job.
Mike Moore stressed that if they can't get preliminary Plat
approval on the lots, then they can't get engineering approval.
� Steve Simonson noted the y submitted their construction plans with
the Preliminary Plat and most developers don't Mr. Simonson
further stated that Ed Ford had a whole list of comments c` on the
construction plans, but there were only five items that needed to
be corrected on the Preliminary Play.
Bob Andrews commented he still did not see a stub-out of Woodland
Oaks Orive,� and Mike Moore mentioned several other options they
are considering that might possibly serve the same purpose.
There was some further discussion on this subject.
Tom Flores once again stated they are at the final design stage
and they need Preliminary Plat approval.
Tom Flores had with him a diagram of the proposed Dimrock Street
realignment designed to help solve some of the drainage problem
The Commission looked it over and discussed it briefly. ^
-
Steve Simonson told Tom Flores that if City Council lifts the
restriction we will put them on the agenda for March 3, 1987.
All three gentlemen, Tom Flores, Ron Jaroszewski, and Mike Moore
claimed they knew nothing about the letter from City Council.
There was some discussion about this. ^
Ron Jaroszewski informed the Commission he had been reassured by
the bank even if they don't build Unit 4, they will get the money
for the drainage reconstruction.
Merwin Willman commented we would like to see Woodland Oaks Drive
go out to Jack Hays Boulevard and to Schertz Parkway.
Mike' Moore said they don't want to spend money to build the
crossway, mostly because it does not increase the value of their
property -.only that of the adjoining property owners, and
explained some of the things they had been trying to work out
with several of the adjoining property owners. Mr. Moore said so
'far they had not been successful�
Khairman Yarling assured Tom Flores they would be on the next
Meeting's agenda subject to Council's approval.
.
The gentlemen representing Woodland Oaks thanked the Commission
for their time.
Ty Brisgill commented there are streets in Woodland Oaks that are
three years old now and have still not been accepted by the City,
NE
` -_-�---__--_
- ^
�
/
-
and yet they keep on building and going ahead and the City still
doesn't have anything.
Steve Simonson informed the Commission they will be accepting the
streets and drainage on a one-by-one basis, there will be no
blanket acceptance. Mr. Simonson also said the City has now
accepted the drainage from� Kiine Circle to Hidden Grove.
Ty Brisgill brought up the fact that other subdivisions in the
City are being built but do not seem to be experiencing the same
problems.
Bob Andrews pointed out to Mr. Brisgill that there are two
' reasons: (1) topography, and (2) Woodland Oaks is selling 40
times more houses than other subdivisions.
Steve Simonson remarked that what we had in Woodland Oaks was a
twofold problem and both problems are being corrected now where
they had failed in the past:
(1) The City is taking a much more active part in observing all
new construction and reconstruction that is going on; and
(2) Woodland Oaks has had a change in engineers and in
contractors.
It was asked
what
happens
if they get through with Unit 4 and the
City still
doesn't
accept
- is there a performance bond. Steve
Simonson
replied
yes there
is.
There was some further discussion on Woodland Oaks.
#5 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Mobile Home Ordinance -
Section X - Mobile Homes on Individual
Lots
Merwin Willman said he had asked at the last meeting for this to
be on the agenda. Mr. Willman further stated that on Page 12
Section X, Paragraphs A and C disagree and they need to be
'
clarified because of the new zoning district he is writing up' for
the Schirmerville area. Mr. Willman said it would be easierfo`
him if those two paragraphslwere left as they originally were
previous to the February 10, 1987 meeting at which time Planning
and Zoning recommended they be changed.
After some discussion the Commission decided to withdraw the
changes recommended for Section X and leave it as it - /as
originally.
#6 GENERAL DISCUSSION
Bob Andrews commented he h as a big g concern about the fact that we
are getting requests for variance upon variance upon variance
Mr. Andrews said we need to go over these requests very
carefully. '
-7-
�
/
-
Bob Andrews also pointed out that in the current issue of the
"Zoning Bulletin" 6 of the 13 items covered were on variances -
properly granted and improperly granted.
Mr. Andrews said on Page 5 o the "Zoning Bulletin" there was a
good example reaffirming the requirement that the applicant prove
undue hardship if the variance is not granted and that we must
also require the applicant to state the reason why he cannot
conform to the ordinance.
Bob Andrews also said we need to go over the ordinance to see if
it is wrong.
Ken Greenwald advised the Commission not to go running scared of
law suits.
Mr. Greenwald also reported
that because
of the
lateness of the
meeting he had not had an
opportunity to
bring up
to Council the
subject of alternates for
the Planning and
Zoning
Commission,
Chairman Yarling asked Mr. Greenwald if he was going to bring it
up at the Council Workshop the following evening (2-25-87) and
Mr. Greenwald said yes.
Ken Greenwald stated we have been trying to get the speed limits
on FM 3009 changed and were told by the State Highway Department
if we put up our own speed limit signs, they will take them down
Mr. Greenwald said he thinks we got our point across though. ^
Ken Greenwald also asked Ty Brisgill, if at the next Homeowners'
meeting for Woodland Oaks, he would request parents take our
street signs out of their kids' bedrooms.
Merwin Willman suggested that one itme on the agenda of our next
regularly scheduled meeting be discussion on changing the title
of our Overlay District Ordinance from FM 3009 to Jack Hays
Bou\evard,
Chairman Yarling asked for this item to be put on the agenda for
March 10, 1987.
Merwin Willman commented the Sign Ordinan ce
Council in October of last year and he would | ikwas approved by
e to suggest the
City Staff that enforces it make a list of what gives them
problems and of suggested changes.
Merwin Willman said three or four years ago the City bought some
books _ "Citizen's Guide to Zoning" and "Citizen's Guide to
Planning" and asked if any of the members don't need them to
bring them back so we can give them to the new members. �
Merwin Willman also rein'inded the Commission of the Joint Public
Hearing on March 3, 1987 on the IH 10 frontage.
Imm
Z 777
°
�
-
Tv Bri sg ill commen ted Gemc ra ft h as a new temporary development
sign and asked if they needed approval to put it up. Mr.
Brisgill said it replaced the old Gemcraft/Jim Shepherd Homes
sign, but it is in a different location.
Ty Brisgill said the .road in Greenshire with the islands is
beautiful.
Chairman Yarling asked if it's paved and Mr. Brisgill said no -
it's still Just dirt.
Keith Van Dine mentioned some bad potholes in the road if you
drive down Pfeil Road toward Shady Acres coming back toward Lower
Seguin Road"
Keith Van Dine also mentioned the accident in his area that
involved the fatality of a young boy. Mr. Van Dine said it took
the ambulance forty-five minutes to arrive and the guy who called
the ambulance says he called twice - when he called the second
time they told him they hadn't gotten the first call. Mr. Van
Dine said it's possible the guy may have called the wrong number
first or in his panic not given an address.
Steve Simonson and Ken Greenwald both expressed concern about the
forty-five minute arrival time. Mr. Simonson said the call is on
tape and he would check it out. Mr. Greenwald said we pride
ourselves on the quick responses of the ambulances.
Keith Van Dine said the Fire Department and the Police Department
both need to drive around and become more familiar with the area.
Mr. Van Dine remarked that if you don't know where an address is,
a good place to stop is Shady Acres - they know where almost
everyone lives.
Keith Van Dine said the homeowners in his area have now appointed
a committee for looking into all the planning and zoning
activities pertinent to their properties. Mr. Van Dine said one
thing they would like some information about is the location of
mobile homes along FM 1518. Steve Simonson informed Mr. Van Dine
anyone wishing to place a mobile home in that area would-have to
come in with a plot plan.
Keith Van Dine said.there had been some concern at one time about
a possible mobile home park being constructed. Steve Simonson
said he had talked with a Ms. Mitchell about that particular
matter and had informed her that someone looking to build a
mobile home park can't just come in and build, they must come
before the Planning and Zozning Commission for approval first.
Keith Van Dine had some ti about th bli hearing
ques ons a ou epu c ear ng
scheduled for March 3, 1987 and the Commission helped with the
information he needed.
°
`
~
`
Bob Andrews informed Keith Van Dine that Schertz has a Volunteer
Fire Department and would be glad to have people from his area
offer their services,
Steve Simonson mentioned that one thing the City is looking into
for the future is taking Live Oak Road all the way through out to
FM 1518.
At this time there was a brief discussion on the AICUZ.
Ken Greenwald' informed the Commission there is now an 800 toll
free number in Austin you can call and check on the status of any
bill in the legislature. The hours are 8:00 A.M. to 6:00 P.M.
Monday through Thursday and 8:00 A.M. to 5:OO P.M. Friday. You
need either the subject and author or the bill number. The
number is 800-252-9693.
#7 ADJOURNMENT
Chairman Yarling adjourned the meeting at 9:45 P.M.
A Joint Public Hearing is scheduled for March 3, 1987.
The next regularly scheduled meeting is March 10, 1987.
-10-