03-10-1987 -
PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES
The Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular session
on Tuesday, March 10, 1987 at 7:00 p.m. in the Municipal Complex
Conference Room, 1400. Live Oak Road. Those present were as
follows
PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION OTHERS PRESENT
THOMAS YARLING, CHAIRMAN ROBERT W. WUEST
BOB ANDREWS, VICE-CHAIRMAN EUGENE U. BROWN
MERWIN WILLMAN CHARLES ECHLER
KEITH VAN DINE RICHARD DE MUNBRUN
DAVID ALLEN JAMES EDWARDS
' KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN
MEMBERS ABSENT
TY BRISGILL
JAMES HARDEN,SECRETARY
CITY STAFF
STEVE SIMONSON, ASST. CITY MGR.
ALICE AUSTIN, DEPUTY CITY SECRETARY
#1 CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Yarling called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
A. Regular Session February 24, 1987
Bob Andrews suggested that page 2 ,Item 4 paragraph 6 be changed
to reflect "approximately 4 feet high and 3 1/2 feet wide.
David Allen made the motion to approve the minutes of the Regular
Session February 24, 1987 as amended. Bob Andrews seconded the
motion which carried with the following vote:
AYES: B. Andrews, M. Willman, K. VanDine, D. Allen and T.
Yarling.
NAYS: None
B. Special Session March 3, 1987
Bob Andrews advised that page 6, paragraph 1 last sentence did
not appear to be correct. He requested that the tape of the
meeting be checked. and item .c hanged if necessary.
David Allen made the motion to approve the minutes after staff
had checked tape and made amendment to minutes if necessary.
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(page 6, -paragraph.l, last sentence is .changed to read "Darwin
Peek also stated that if there is a stub-out, onto his property,
at the end of the cul-de-sac on Dimrock he plans to develop it
onto Maske Road."
#3 CITIZEN'S INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS: None
#4 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENQATION: Sign Ordinance(Discussion
on Variances in Relation to the Sign
Ordinance)
Tom Yarling advised that comments had been received from staff
concerning the sign ordinance. He requested Steve Simonson bring
Commission up to date.
Steve Simonson advised that Don Brodeur had been asked to check
out and submit questions concerning sign ordinance. The items
Don Brodeur submitted were concerning:
Set back: In calling other cities he finds San Antonio and a lot
of other cities have almost no set back(1 foot off the line or on
the line) because your still not impeding traffic because of
right of way and things of that nature.
Restriction on secondary or auxiliary signs and items of this
nature.
Portable or mobile signs because of the way it is written in the
ordinance is extremely restrictive as far as cost and it's very
nebulous as far as time frame.
Might have more items but we are not to worried about sign
height, and items of that nature we can live with things like
that. Set back, auxiliary signs and the way our ordinance is
written from side yard set back, the visibility triangle setback
and the set back from right of way created a very bunched effect.
David Allen said that the first thing that needed to be done was
to decide if they are serious in writing the overlay district in
the desires for the appearance of the City of Schertz. He said
if we are serious that he thinks what is written in the
ordinance is very workable.
Steve Simonson advised that: Staff was requesting clarification
because its being challenge* so much. One we look at conditions
such as these. gentlemen are building. Forget the sign that they
are requesting for the Pic N Pac, its confusing to use because
you say they can have only one free standing sign per shopping
area or whatever it is. If they put up a mobile sign, does that
mean that is the free standing sign and the other businesses can
not have anything. That's the way the ordinance reads, that's
what it looks like to us. Number two is a little bit confusing
on what they are allowed on the front of their building. The
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canopy is only allowed one side sign, nothing on .building or
other side of canopy. Most people do not have any problem with -
sign height and area. The problem is strictly the way it is
written compressing sign giving no lateral* room at.all if you
have a hundred feet, you have to come 5.0 feet this way and 25
feet this way you have 25 feet left to put the sign:
Mr. Allen advised that the intent of the ordinance was to limit
businesses to one pole sign, preferably low profile in shopping
center situations and not have every business putting up
individual pole sign.
MR. JAMES HARDEN ARRIVED AT 7:30 P.M.
Mr. Greenwald advised that Mr. Brodeur was looking for
clarification on how the Commissior. felt these particular items
should be interpreted. He also advised that we may need a slight
adjustment in the language of the ordinance.
Bob Andrews advised that shopping centers must have something
besides the name of the center on a pylon sign to get people to
come in. According the the ordinance, if the name of the center
was put up that would be the only sign allowed. He was also
concerned with the type of sign allowed for individual
businesses.
James Harden advised that he felt the height and set back
restriction needed to be addressed, especially along I-35. An
example was the Austin Hiway Diner who's sign could not be seen
from I-35 if they complied with current set back.
Dave Allen made the motion to table Sign Ordinance and reschedule
on the next agenda. Merwin Willman seconded the motion which
carried with the following vote:
AYES: M. Willman, J. Harden, K. VanDine, D. Allen and T. Yarling
NAYS: Bob Andrews
#S. CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Johnson-Dempsey &
Associates, Inc. - Request for Sign
Variance.
Mr. Richard De Munbrun advised that they were. asking. for a
` variance to the sign ordinance because they felt that compliance
would create a hardship. Their business would be a convenience
store with gas pumps. Set back from side property line is only 2
foot off. If they comply with ordinance the sign would be in the
driveway. Front set back would put the sign in the parking area.
If they eliminated parking spaces for sign they would be in
violation of Zoning Ordinance. He advised that they were asking
for asking for one sign for 180 feet of frontage. They are
proposing a small-standing sign on poles. Mr. De Munbrun
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advised that.all future business would be allowed only signs
mounted- on the front of their businesses. The Pic N Pac store _
name would be on their canopy. Mr. De Munbrun advised that even
if FM 78 were widened the height of their requested signs would
not allow them to fall onto the street.
David Allen made the motion to approve the variance requested by
Johnson-Dempsey & Associates, Inc. James Harden seconded the
motion which carried with the following vote:
AYES: M. Willman, J. Harden, K. VanDine, D. Allen, B. Andrews
and T. Yarling
NAYS: None
#b CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: B & J Lawn Care-
Request for Sign Variance.
Mr. James Edwards advised that he was requesting two signs
located either side of the Animal Shelter on FM 1518. If he
complied with the Sign Ordinance on set back, one of his signs
would be in the middle of the creek and the other would be in the
middle of the woods. Neither sign would we visible from the
roadcaay. He advised that he was requesting one sign 200 feet
south of the Animal Shelter and 35 feet off the pavement. The
other sign would be 105 feet north of the Animal Shelter and 50
foot off the pavement. Height of signs would be 8 feet. Mr.
Edwards advised that this was a temporary measure to let people
know where his business is located. He Advised that once
:z:t; building began on the other side of FM 1518 his signs would be
taken down.. Mr. Edwards said that he felt this was a hardship
situation because compliance with the ordinance would make it
impossible for persons passing on FM 1518 to see his signs.
David Allen made the motion to grant the variance as requested by
James Edwards. James Harden seconded the motion which carried
with the following vote:
AYES: J. Harden, K. VanDine, D. Allen, T. Yarling, B. Andrews
NAYES: None
ABSTENSIONS: M. Willman
#7 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Change Name of FM 3009
Overlay District Ordinance to Jack
' Hays Boulevard Overlay District
Ordinance.
Mr. Willman advised that the overlay district was started prior
to renaming FM 3009 to Jack Hays Boulevard. He advised that
there was a need to rename to the ordinance to the Jack Hays
Boulevard Overlay Ordinance-and to change the .area to be limited
to the area from I 35 to FM 78.
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Mr. Willman made the motion tQ recommend to City Council the~the
title be changed to Special Overlay Jack Hays Boulevard-and that
Article 19, Section 2, paragraph 2.1 be changed to add "from the
intersection of IH 35 & Jack Hays. Boulevard to the intersection.
of FM 78 and Jack Hays Boulevard. Bob Andrews seconded the
motion which carried with the following vote:
AYES: M. Willman, J. Harden, K. VanDine, T. Yarling and B.
Andrews.
NAYS: None
ABSTENTIONS: D. Allen
#8 GENERAL DISCUSSION:
Bob Andrews advised that the sign ordinance needed the word
"hardship" and a definition. Need to have something in the
ordinance that staff could point to and say you can ask for
variance but you must show hardship. He said that some of the
requests for variances could be eliminated if a hardship had to
be proven. He said that everything he had been reading from
Planning and Zoning bulletin showed that variances joining two
lots they quote a page and paragraph number and the reason why
the variance was or was not granted.
Mr. Simonson advised that one of the questions most often asked
was "What do you think our chances are. He also advised that the
Zoning Ordinance gives some guidelines on what you might want to
put in defining hardship. It specifies environmental,
neighborhood, economic There are four items you need to look
at in the zoning ordinance before you change it.
Bob Andrews ask if anything had been found out about the call in
Schermerville on the accident.
Mr. Simonson advised that the ambulance left the barn within 60
seconds after the call was received. Total from time call was
received until ambulance arrived on the scene was 14 minutes.
The only thing we can think of is that the first call went into
911. Our records show only one call coming in.
Mr. Allen asked if the city was becoming a part of the new 911
system. Mr. Greenwald advised that we would be joining and it
should start working in 18 to 24 months.
Steve Simonson advised that .one of the items staff was looking
into is something to do with 78, Schertz Parkway and better
ingress and egress into the city from the south side of the City.
Steve Simonson said that they would have groundbreaking for the
Schertz Parkway on the 16 or 17 at noon. .Invitations-would be_
coming for City Council and P&Z.
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Ken Greenwald advised that City Staff had been. asked to look into
- what would ha-ve to be done in appointing alternates to the
Planning & Zoning Commission.
Mr. Simonson advised that he did have the information back from
Live Oak and in looking at. it and would be getting something to
the commission for the next meeting.
Mr. Greenwald requested that members not refer to nine one one as
nine eleven. This creates confusion for small children looking
for an eleven.
Mr. Allen asked if this. would be a new system. Mr. Simonson
advised that this would. be a totally automated system. Mr.
Greenwald advised that Ma Bell would come out before system was
implemented and find out what our area of coverage is. They will
then go back and program the system and calls in our coverage
system will come to our department.
Merwin Willman advised that he had promised verbage on a new.
zoning district for the area South of Randolph and that he
finally had the information. He advised that he had given them
some of his reasoning on the handout he had given commission. He
advised that the proper district would be RA/Single Family
Residential Agricultural District. He. advised that he had worked
up some new definitions and schedule of uses and a sketch of area
and list of references. He also said that there was a proposed
change to the AACUZ Overlay District. He advised that although he
;:ig had started this to apply to the area South of Randolph but had
realized that this district might be applied to other areas of
the city as well.
Mr. Willman advised that the Schertz Parkway Overlay did not have
boundaries. Mr. Simonson advised that the Ordinance did now have
boundaries.
James Harden said that a couple of weeks ago when Vaughan was in
on that street in Greenshire and his argument was a curb and
trees back from that. He advised that a couple of builders had
been in his office and they were discussing it. He advised .that
the engineers were going to require 8 feet or they would not
guarantee the slab for a house with trees.
.lames Harden then asked Steve Simonson about the drain on :Jack
Hays and if the collector was going to be in the right of way.
Steve Simonson advised that it would take the water coming off of
the property and that coming down from the other property. We
will have to regrade the right of way so where it used to come to
the' other culvert it will divert it down. Mr. Simonson also
advised that this would not be an open drainage collector.
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Mr. Harden also re-quested size of .the Drainage boxes at Crest
_Oak. Mr. Simonson advised that they would be 6 x 8 foot boxes
with 30 foot- street.
Keith Van Dine advised that Pfeil Road was still in need of
repair. Some of the roadway had been patched in the area where
they had been working on the water line.
Mr. Van. Dine said he had put out the word in the Schermerville
area about needing volunteer firemen and would advise if anyone
was interested. He also advised Mr. Willman that he would be in
contact with the committee before next week and get some input
from them.
Mr. Van Dine advised that he had been approached by the speed
limit signs and that many people felt that 20 MPH was too slow.
He asked what could be done to change the speed limit to 30 MPH.
Mr. Simonson advised that this was the normal speed limit-for a
residential speed limit and that all that would have to be done
was have the people petition the Council to change the speed
limit.
Mr. Greenwald asked if Mr. Van Dine could bring up at
Schermerville zoning committee meeting the possibility of
changin-g the name of Pfeil Road. Mr. Van Dine advised that he
had raised the question before and the and the response was that
the people out there like it as Pfeil Road.
Mr. Allen asked why when Woodland Oaks came in for their original
plat why they got approval without any stubouts. He advised that
this was a long street with no stubouts. Mr. Willman advised
tY~at there was nop reason at the time.
Mr. Allen asked if a letter on blinking light signs had been sent
to SAS. Mr. Simonson advised that a letter v,~as not sent to SAS
as he had been told that they had a special variance from
Council. Mr. Allen requested that Mr. Simonson check on the
variance.
Mr. Allen asked if there was any ordinance prohibiting the
parking of large vehicles on the roadway in Schertz. He advised
that there were some people in a motor home who pulled over and
parked on Main Street and a policeman came and told them they had
to leave.
Mr. Allen also advised that the motor home parked behind Carolyns
Beauty Salon .was dumping his holding tanks onto the. ground. He
also said that since the city was working to control signs was
there not something that could be done to control the amount of
signs the Highway. Department- was putting up. Mr. Simonson
advised that we had no control over the Highway Department.
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Mr. Yarling ,advised that the next regular scheduled meeting would
be in two weeks.
Mr. Andrews requested that the ordinance concerning satalite
recieving dishes be place on the next regular agenda.
Mr. Harden asked if Mr. Simonson could check on No Parking Signs
for I 35. Mr. Simonson advised that he had already requested
signs.
#9 ADJOURNMENT The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
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