10-27-1987 PLANNING AND ZONING MINOTES
The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission convened in a regular
session on Tuesday, October 27, 1987 at 7:00 P.M. in the
Municipal Complex Conference Room, 1400 Schertz Parkway. Those
present were as follows:
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION OTHERS PRESENT
BOB ANDREWS, CHAIRMAN FLOYD MCKEE
TY BRISGILL, VICE-CHAIRMAN SUE MCKEE
KEITH VAN DINE, SECRETARY NEIL THORESON
MERWIN WILLMAN GEORGE VICK
RANDY GROSSMAN RUBY GOLLA
MARY MARSH
KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN
CITY STAFF
STEVE SIMONSON, ASST. CITY MGR.
NORMA ALTHOUSE, RECORDING SECY.
#1 CALL TO ORDER
Chairman Andrews called the meeting to order at 7:00 P.M.
{ #2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES: Regular Session October 13, 1987
Chairman Andrews asked that on Page 7, Paragraph 2, second
sentence after "Realty World sign" a comma and the following be
added "that's in noncompliance with the Ordinance and will need
to come into compliance by 1990,".
Ty Brisgill made a motion to approve the minutes, as amended, for
the regular session October 13, 1987. Keith Van Dine seconded
the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried.
#3 CITIZENS' INPIIT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS
There was none.
#4 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Floyd McKee - Request
for a Variance to the Sign Ordinance
Floyd and Sue McKee were at the meeting to represent this
request. This item had been tabled at the October 13, 1987
meeting in order to give Mr. McKee time to fill out the
appropriate form for a variance request. The appropriate form
has now been filled out and submitted by Mr. McKee.
Floyd McKee commented to Chairman- Andrews he had contacted
someone at Randolph Air Force Base about the 300 watt spotlight
he plans on using to shine up at the flag poles and was told
there is no problem. Mr. McKee said he had also checked with the
FAA and they asked him to put in a bigger light.
. Mary Marsh asked Floyd McKee how he plans to accommodate a large
number of R.V.'s (she had driven up by his property and to her
it looked terribly small). Mr. McKee informed Mary Marsh that
what she was looking at was just the road, there are 40 acres in
back which will be used to accommodate the R.V.'s.
Keith Van Dine said he and Merwin Willman had driven by the
property also and asked Floyd McKee if the strip down to where it
cpens up is just a roadway and Mr. McKee said yes, it will be
paved and the area landscaped. Keith Van Dine also asked Floyd
McKee if all the gates belonged to other people and Mr. McKee.
replied yes they do, those people have property along there and
had asked him to put the gates in and he did.
Chairman Andrews remarked that he thought. he had heard Floyd
McKee say there will no backing out of the R.V.'s from the park.
Mr. McKee said that is correct, the park will be designed so that
the R.V.'s will have a level pull through approximately 60' long
to accommodate those who may be towing boats, cars, etc.
Chairman Andrews then asked if the plat will be laid out to
indicate that long pull-through area and Mr. McKee replied it
will be.
Randy Grossman asked if the Schertz Business Club had been
contacted and had any discussion about putting a bulletin board
at the R.V. Park informing the campers of services available in
Schertz. Merwin Willman replied he thought the discussion should
remain on the subject of the variances being requested and the
sczbject of the bulletin board could be brought up later in
general discussion.
Merwin Willman asked Floyd McKee if he thought the height of 70'
for the flagpoles would be high enough so those with R.V.'s could
see the FM 2252 exit. Mr. McKee replied he hopes it will be high
enough and the flags should be visible enough to give the
campers approximately one-half mile's worth of time to be aware
of the exit.
Merwin Willman then asked Floyd McKee how travelers will know the
flags are for the R.V. Park and Mr. McKee replied all the logos
will indicate that fact, and they will also be sending letters
out to various R.V. clubs informing them about the park and the
flags.
Merwin Willman made a motion to approve the request from Floyd
McKee for two variances to the Sign Ordinance as follows: (1) to
allow Mr. McKee to erect two 70' flagpoles, and t2) to allow him
to display two 20' x 30' flags on those poles. Ty Brisgill
seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion
carried.
-2-
Merwin Willman commented before the meeting goes on, he would
like to ask Mr. McKee if he is aware of Senate Bill #408 which as
of 9-1-87 requires a Certificate of Authority to install
utilities in a City`s ETJ. Mr. Willman said he understood Floyd
McKee is getting his water from Green Valley and he might want to
check and make sure they are aware of this Senate Bill.
#5 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Melvin F. Golly -
. Request to Place Mobile Home on His
Property off FM 1518--
, Ruby Golly was at the meeting to represent this request. This
item had been tabled from the October 13, 1987 meeting to give
Melvin Golly time to provide sufficient information to the
Commission about the septic system.
Chairman Andrews asked Ruby Golly if the present septic system
could maintain two dwellings and Mrs. Golly replied she did not
know. Chairman Andrews said that was one of the Commission's
main concerns before granting approval and Mrs. Golly asked if
they put in a larger system, would the Commission give their
approval. Chairman Andrews informed Mrs. Golly that the
Commission needs something from a municipal authority stating the
septic system meets state standards and will be able to maintain
two dwellings, or stating that a septic system Large enough will
be installed which will meet state standards and accommodate both
dwellings.
Chairman Andrews informed Mrs. Golly that the Commission can't
address this request because they are waiting for an answer and
the necessary information before deciding upon approval or
disapproval. Mrs. Golly asked where she could ohtain such
information and Steve Simonson remarked that Bexar county has the
controls over septic systems.
Merwin Willman aslced if the Commission is basing it's decision on
the septic system and wondered if the Commission shouldn't give
some kind of indication as to approval or disapproval of placing
a mobile home on the property of the septic system meets state
standards) so the Golla's have an idea and won't be wasting their
time.
Randy Grossman asked Mrs. Golly if there had been any change in
the number of people using the septic system such as grown
children who no longer Live at home and Mrs. Golly replied no.
When asked how many people are on the system, Mrs. Golly replied
there are six.
Keith Van Dine asked Mrs. Golly if that is a pool-type camper
located on the property now and she replied yes it is, and where
the pool-type camper is located now is where they would like to
locate the mobile home.
-3-
Chairman Andrews said the Commission could address the request
and see if anything other than the septic system precludes
approval or disapproval.
Merwin Willman made a motion to approve the request from Melvin
F. Golla to locate a 12' x 52' mobile home, in addition to the
primary residence, on his property off FM 1518 contingent upon
his providing the City of Schertz (for purposes of obtaining the
necessary permits)- with sufficient evidence to indicate that the
septic system meets the state standards and/or health codes
required for two dwellings. Keith Van Dine seconded the motion
and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion carried.
#6 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Zoning Ordinance -
Discussion on Including a Section on
Housing for the Aged
Chairman Andrews commented he had asked to have this item placed
on the agenda for discussion.
Mary Marsh inquired as to what type of zoning districts the homes
for the elderly in the City of Schertz are currently in and Steve
Simonson replied they are in both Residential and General
Business zoned areas.
Merwin Willman observed that the houses put in by the Housing
Authority are well designed for senior citizens. Steve Simonson
said those houses are built according to HUD guidelines.
Chairman Andrews asked who owns them and Steve Simonson replied
they are owned by the Schertz Housing Authority. Mr. Simonson
T.~ent'~on tc explain the Housing Authority is run by Commissioners
appointed by City Council and the Mayor. Mr. Simonson said the
Commissioners deal directly with HUD as far as having their own
budget (the money does not come from the City of Schertz) and the
one here in Schertz ran in the black for five years - it depends
on the management. Mr. Simonson further stated the government
floats bonds in order to loan money to the Housing Authority for
the purpose of building senior citizen housing and it is merely a
paper transaction the way the money is paid back because the
Housing Authority really never pays back the loan.
Merwin Willman mentioned the need to get copies of ordinances
from other cities if the Commission thinks the time is now to
pursue this matter on including a section in the Zoning Ordinance
on housing for the elderly. Mr. Willman also said it may be too
early and the Commission might not want to pursue this matter
just yet.
Randy Grossman asked Chairman Andrews what kind of glaring
potential problems he sees and Mr. Andrews replied he sees no
glaring potential problems, he is just trying to anticipate five,
ten, twelve years down the road. Mr. Andrews said there will
probably be a growth in population because we are in the sun belt
and because we do have a nice City in which to retire.
-4-
Merwin Willman stated the big question is whether or not now is
the time to pursue this.
Randy Grossman asked if the Commission had any idea what kind of
controls would be needed or we are lacking, and Chairman Andrews
pointed out we have no controls now, we do need some guidelines.
Ken Greenwald suggested using the HUD guidelines.
Steve Simonson said one thing to be aware of is the location of
housing for the elderly, and brought up the example of apartments
for the elderly being located in a multi-family residential area.
Mr. Simonson asked if the elderly would be able to walk to
amenities such as the Post Office and the grocery store from
where these apartments may be located. Mr. Simonson said many of
the elderly still drive, but many do not.
Keith Van Dine suggested using the HUD guidelines as merely a
guide and putting in our own controls.
Randy Grossman asked what we`re talking about as far as HUD
guidelines - a fifty-page leaflet or pamphlet containing all
their regulations and requirements. Steve Simonson said no, more
like a book, the HUD guidelines are quite extensive.
Randy Grossman indicated the Commission could address the issue
immediately recommending some kind of stop-gap regulations needed
for our controls and the research could still go on.
Merwin Willman said, in his opinion, they need to do the research
first and they also need to establish a zoning district for
housing for the elderly. Mr. Willman also observed that housing
for the elderly has other terms such as nursing homes and group
care homes.
Merwin Willman remarked it is possible to go through TML and ask
for copies of other ordinances pertaining to this subject.
Chairman Andrews asked who could contact TML and it was decided
Steve Simonson should be the one to contact them.
Mary Marsh informed the Commission she had occasion to attend a
Iunchecn last Tuesday at Fort Sam Houston and tour their
Retirement Center. Mrs. Marsh said it had every conceivable
amenity you could think of and she named a few such as a beauty
shop, post office, pharmacy, library, etc. and indicated she was
very impressed.
Steve Simonson remarked that Eden Homes in New Braunfels, which
has a church association, has a retirement center somewhat
similar to the one Mary Marsh described at Fort Sam Houston.
Steve Simonson pointed out to the Commission that the
availability of federally subsidized money for public housing
-5-
depends on which political party has a president in the White
House. Mr. Simonson also remarked that Schertz has quite a bit
of housing for the elderly and it's time our sister cities shared
in the; responsibility.
The consensus of the Commission on this item was that research
into housing for the elderly should begin and then they will
assemble all information gathered from the research to write up
their recommendations.
#6a. CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Signs - Jack Hays
Boulevard District 15, Texas Highway
Department Ban
Chairman Andrews asked Steve Simonson if he had any kind of an
update for the Commission since the last meeting. (At the last
meeting, on October 13, 1987, the Commission was informed that
the State Highway Department had pulled up all the bandit signs
along Jack Hays Boulevard on Monday morning October 12th.) Mr. _
Simanson replied he had spoken with Dale Stein of the State
Department of Highways and Transportation out of Seguin and was
informed by Mr. Stein that signs (with the exception of State
Highway signs? are not authorized in the state right-of-way
anytime, anywhere, anyhow.
Mary Marsh ,asked why the Highway Department had pulled up the
signs on a Monday morning and Steve Simonson replied that's when
they came to work. Mr. Simonson went on to explain that Monday
the 12th of October was a holiday for the City but not for the
State and since the Ordinance was revised not too long ago so the
bandit signs could remain up on a holiday weekend, that's the
first time the State Highway Department had worked on a holiday
observed by the City and consequently noticed the bandit signs.
Mary Marsh asked if there's absolutely nothing that can be done
and Steve Simonson said the Ordinance could remain as is and the
developers could take their chances since the signs are very
seldom picked up. Mary Marsh replied it bothers her to be
breaking the law.
Ken Greenwald commented we are basically supplying the developers
with information to break the law.
Chairman Andrews asked if because we are basically supplying them
with information to break the law, if the State picks up the
bandit signs, is the City liable for the developer`s losses.
Steve Simonson remarked that the Ordinance stands in effect on
everything except for the regulations on bandit signs.
Keith Van Dine observed that if the City steps clear out of the
picture, then the developers can do what they want and as long as
the State doesn`t come by and pick up the bandit signs, we can't
say anything.
-6-
Randy Grossman asked if the State has exclusive authority or if
it is intertwining with the City's regulations and Steve Simonson
replied the State's authority is exclusive.
Merwin Willman commented we need to delete the section on bandit
signs from the Ordinance.
Mary Marsh stated the law is the law and the developers will have
to be notified.
Merwin Willman said he didn't think we should be sticking the
City's neck out in regard to this situation.
Ty Brisgill asked if it is a State law and Steve Simonson replied
each District controls it's own right-of-way policy and the
decision was made in District 15 not to allow signs in the right-
of-way. Mr. Simonson pointed out District 15 is the district
that effects the City of Schertz.
Merwin Willman asked how about sending the State Highway
Department a letter explaining our policy and asking them if they
approve or disapprove.
Mary Marsh suggested the letter point out that signs in the
right-of-way are allowed in other districts, that we have a Sign
Ordinance to control the signs, explain our policy about
allowing the developers to put up bandit signs, and if the State
Highway Department disapproves, let them put it in writing.
The Commission asked Steve Simonson to write the letter and he
agreed, but he suggested leaving things as they are now until we
receive an answer from the letter.
Chairman Andrews asked that this item be tabled until the next
regularly scheduled meeting.
~7 CONSIDER AND MAKE RECOMMENDATION: Applicants for Planning
and Zoning Commission
Four applications for the Planning and Zoning Commission had been
received and all applicants were invited to attend the meeting
tonight to answer any questions posed by the Commission. Those
four applicants were as follows:
. Richard Little.- 310 Winburn
Neil Thoreson - 1020 Gettysburg
James Shriver - 302 Aero _
George Vick - 508 Marilyn
Neil Thoreson and George Vick were present, but Richard Little
and James Shriver were not in•attendance at the meeting.
Mary Marsh emphasized her feelings that there there needs to be a
legal person on the Commission at least as an advisor. Mrs.
-7-
Marsh said she was made very aware of this after attending the
American Planning Association Conference in Austin.
Chairman Andrews told Mary Marsh he agrees, but the Commission is
protected legally through City Council.
Keith Van Dine commented he thinks we need to refine our
procedure for selecting a candidate for recommendation to City
Council and it was suggested he bring up this matter later,
during the General Discussion part of the meeting.
At this time Chairman Andrews explained the open door policy to
the two potential candidates and gave them their choice of
staying in the room while each other was being questioned or
leaving the room sc each could be questioned separately. They
chose to leave the room so each could be questioned separately.
The Commission members asked questions of the applicants, first
Neil Thoreson and.. then George Vick.
After the question and answer period was completed, Chairman
Andrews arse again gave the applicants their choice of remaining
in the room while the Commission assessed their evaluations, made
a possible recommendation and voted, or of leaving the room
du~~ing this process. TI~e applicants chose to leave the roam.
After a brief discussion, Merwin Willman made a motion to
recommend to City Council the appointment of George Vick to fill
the vacancy tPosition the term of which expires in October,
1°88} on the Planning and Zoning Commission. Randy Grossman
seconded the motion and the vote was unanimous in favor. Motion
carried.
The applicants were asked to come back into the room and were
informed of the results. Chairman Andrews told them it had been
a difficult decision and thanked them for coming. Mr. Andrews
also told George Vick he would be notified of the results of the
City Council vote on the recommendation of his appointment to the
Planning and Zoning Commission.
#8 GENERAL DISCIISSION
Chairman Andrews called the Commission members attention to the
"Zoning Bulletin" dated October 197 (everyone received a copy in
their package) and pointed out that one stop-gap measure the
Commission has available to them when someone requests a variance
is to ask for an Environmental Impact Study.
Randy Grossman asked what such a study covers and Chairman
Andrews replied they cover just about everything - for example,
increase in traffic, heaviest time of day for traffic, projected
growth in population, the need for further services such as
police, fire, ambulance, etc. - and there are firms in business
for the sole purpose of doing these Environmental Impact Studies.
-8-
Chairman Andrews asked Steve Simonson who approved the work being
done on the railroad bridge on FM 78 over the Cibolo Creek and
Steve Simonson replied he is trying to find out. Mr. Simonson
further commented he hopes the dam the workers have built will
allow the water to flow through when it rains. Mr. Simonson
said he is trying to find out who gave them permission to change
the flow of the Cibolo Creek and he has calls in to both FEMA and
the Carps of Engineers.
Mary Marsh commented she needs help in locating people to form
the nucleus of a citizens' council, people who are interested in
what's going on in the City of Schertz. Mrs. Marsh said she
needs some names and phone numbers so she can get going on this.
Chairman Andrews gave her the names of Lynn Daby and Art Young
from the Lone Oak area.
Mary Marsh asked Ken Greenwald if he had brought in the tax
infcrmation she wanted and Mr. Greenwald replied he would bring
it to the joint meeting tomorrow night.
Keith Van Dine asked who he sends the bill to because he blew a
fire on Pfeil Road which has a lot of holes that need to be
filled.
Keith Van Dine mentioned again that the process for selecting a
candidate to be ncminated to fill a pcsition needs tc be refined.
Mr. Van Dine suggested that for the interviews each Commission
member only have so much time to ask questions, that each member
be allowed to ask only three questions (there could be a list of
twenty-one questions), ai:d that the Commission come up with some
kind of a format.
Mary Marsh, referring to Chairman Andrews, said the opening and
closing remarks from the chairman were very good and very
necessary.
Merwin Willman said he, personally, likes to interview each
applicant individually and also likes to have the candidates cut
of the room when the Commission votes on their selection.
Randy Grossman asJred if with the open door policy that can be
done, and Steve Simonson said you can call an Executive Session.
Ken Greenwald reminded the Commission to be careful about calling
Executive Sessions.
Chairman Andrews asked that the discussion to include the clause
in the Planning and Zoning Rules of Procedure about calling an
Executive Session be put on the agenda of the next regularly
scheduled meeting.
Keith Van Dine commented that if he personally knew an applicant,
he might want to provide some input on that applicant to help the
-9-
other members decide who is most qualified or who is not
qualified.
Chairman Andrews posed the question that if he cannot vote for or
against an applicant, how can he vote cn anything of magnitude.
Mary Marsh said she felt there should be an opportunity at the
end of an Executive Session for some discussion.
Mary Marsh also, on the subject of the number of questions, said
they could have as many as fifty, but each member still be
allowed to ask only three. Mrs. Marsh said she would like to
suggest that everyone come in with some questions, even as late
as January, that they feel are appropriate to ask an applicant.
Randy Grossman noted there should be an oppcrtunity for some open
questions because every applicant has their own individual
personality that may not be brought out in other questions.
Mary Marsh suggested maybe the first round of questions be
structured and then if any Commission member isn't satisfied,
there could be open questions.
Chairman Andrews said he listens mainly to the response of the
applicants and the time it takes them to make that response.
Chairman Andrews asked that further discussion on setting up a
specific format for interviewing applicants for the Commission be
scheduled on the agenda cf the first meeting in January, 1988.
Keith Van Dine told the Commission how much he appreciated being
able tc attend the American Planning Association Conference and
said he thought the saddest thing about it was that there were
those whc didn't get to gc.
Mary Marsh stated the Commission needs to be aware of all the new
House Bills and Keith Van Dine said he is going to make a list of
of them.
Chairman Andrews commented that if the members would read the
ordinance every time pertaining to a particular item on the
agenda, the majority of times they will stay out of trouble as
far as their recommendations about an item are concerned and
pointed out that most of the cases reported in the "Zoning
Bulletin" back up his statement.
Merwin Willman noted there are three things the Commission should
always be aware of when considering an item and those three
things are the health, welfare and safety of the citizens.
Randy Grossman informed the Ccmmission he has initiated a project
for this coming Saturday and he needs their help. Mr. Grossman
went cn to say he plans on some adults dressing up and trick or
treating in Schertz to gather food for RACAP (Randolph Area
Christian Assistance Program) which is headed by Martha [Fright.
-LO-
Mr. Grossman said the manager of Albertson's has agreed to
furnish shopping baskets and Bruce Cates of Channel 5 KENS TV has
been contacted about media coverage. Mr. Grossman said he could
pretty :much cover Woodland Oaks but asked for the Commission's
help in any of the other areas of Schertz.
. Chairman Andrews suggested Randy Grossman contact Samuel Clemens
High School about the possibility of their football team and
their band members being able to help him cut.
Ken Greenwald suggested he contact the local scout masters for
help from the boy scouts.
Merwin Willman commented that the Commission members had probably
noticed cn the copy of the Junk Yard Ordinance (which has been
approved) that they received in their package that something was
missing, namely the parts about enclosure cf garbage areas. Mr.
Willman said the Council felt that would be too hard to enforce.
Ken Greenwald said they will try to work cut same kind of
controls for new businesses coming in.
Merwin Willman mentioned two events that will be upcoming in
1988:
(a) The American Planning Association National Conference tc be
held in San Antonio April 30 through May 4; and
(b) The American Planning Association Conference to be held in
Houston October 5th through the 8th.
Merwin Willman said he has a copy of Senate Bill X408 and he will
make copies for the others. Mr. lti~illman said the biggest thing
about it is that it requires a Certificate of Authority to
install utilities in a City's ETJ.
Ken Greenwald reported that the renewal of two-year terms had
been approved by City Council for Bcb Andrews, Randy Grossman and
Mary Marsh. Mr. Greenwald also said the Council approved the
appaintments of Bob Andrews as Chairman and Ty Brisgill as Vice-
Chairman cf the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Ken Greenwald reminded everyone they had received copies in their
packages of four ordinances that had their final readings.
Ken Greenwald, on the subject of being sued, told the Commission
members that somewhere in their two-year term, they would
probably be served. Mr. Greenwald said the City Attorney will
cover them, but they can have their own lawyer, if they wish, at
their own expense.
Ken Greenwald reminded everyone of the joint meeting tomorrow
night (Wednesday, October 28, 1987).
-11-
Chairman Andrews informed the Commission he has a conflict of
schedules tomorrow night and was going to turn the joint meeting
over to Ty Brisgill, but Ty cannot attend, so Mr. Andrews said he
will be there, but far a short time only.
Keith Van Dine asked if there was any possibility of postponing
the joint meeting and Chairman Andrews replied that a
postponement was not advisable.
Ty Brisgill, directing his question to Steve Simonson, asked if
specifics had been requested on the septic system of the property
where the Golla's want to place a mobile home in addition to the
primary residence, and Steve Simonson said yes specifics had
been requested several times. Mr. Brisgill said it bothered him
that the Commission made a decision without getting that specific
information.
I;eith Van Dine said Ty Brisgill should have braught up these
concerns during the discussion ::n the item before the decision
was made.
Ty Brisgill said some of the sidewalks in Woodland Oaks that are
side by side are not level. Steve Simonsen said he has asked the
Inspection Department to double check the sidewalks.
Ty Brisgill said after all the trouble the Commission had gone to
in trying to get some kind of controls on bandit signs along Jack
Hays Boulevard, it all t~arned cut tc be spit in the wind because
f: of the State Highway Department's decision and said maybe it was
his fault for making such a big deal about controls on the signs.
Sieve Simonson reassured Mr. Brisgill the State Highway
Department's action was a surprise to everyone.
Keith Van Dine pointed out the developers know the City is
concerned.
Chairman Andrews said it had also bothered him about Mrs. Golla
because there was nothing the Commission did tonight that could
not have been done at the last meeting and the item would not
have had to been tabled.
Randy Grossman said at least Mrs. Golla knows the Commission
mind and feelings if she comes up with her part.
#9 ADJOIIRNMENT
Chairman Andrews adjourned the meeting at 9:42 P.M.
The next regularly scheduled meeting is November 10, 1987.
-12-