10-05-2021 Agenda with backup
Subcommittee on PDD Standards, New Zoning District and Tree
Mitigation Program
A COMMITTEE OF THE CITY COUNCIL AND PLANNING AND
ZONING COMMISSION
HAL BALDWIN MUNICIPAL COMPLEX CITY COUNCIL
CHAMBERS
1400 SCHERTZ PARKWAY, BUILDING #4 SCHERTZ, TEXAS 78154
October 5, 2021
4:00 P.M.
Call to order (Councilmember Whittaker)
Citizens to be Heard
Discussion and/or Action Items
1. Approval of the minutes of the meeting of September 21, 2021, and September 28, 2021.
2. Review Consensus of September 28, 2021, Meeting.
3. Discussion regarding design standards for Straight Zoning and PDD’s.
4. Discussion regarding the Tree Mitigation Program.
5. Summarize Consensus.
Adjournment
CERTIFICATION
I, BRENDA DENNIS, CITY SECRETARY OF THE CITY OF SCHERTZ, TEXAS, DO HEREBY CERTIFY THAT THE
ABOVE AGENDA WAS PREPARED AND POSTED ON THE OFFICIAL BULLETIN BOARDS ON THIS THE 1st DAY OF
OCTOBER 2021 AT 12:00 P.M., WHICH IS A PLACE READILY ACCESSIBLE TO THE PUBLIC AT ALL TIMES AND
THAT SAID NOTICE WAS POSTED IN ACCORDANCE WITH CHAPTER 551, TEXAS GOVERNMENT CODE.
Brenda Dennis
I CERTIFY THAT THE ATTACHED NOTICE AND AGENDA OF ITEMS TO BE CONSIDERED BY THE
CITY COUNCIL WAS REMOVED BY ME FROM THE OFFICIAL
BULLETIN BOARD ON DAY OF , 2021. TITLE:
This facility is accessible in accordance with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Handicapped parking spaces are available.
If you require special assistance or have a request for sign interpretative services or other services, please call 210-619-1030.
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MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
September 21, 2021
A Regular Meeting was held by the City Council and Planning & Zoning Subcommittee of the City of Schertz,
Texas, on September 21, 2021, at 4:00 p.m. at the Hal Baldwin Municipal Complex Council Chambers
Conference Room located at 1400 Schertz Parkway, Schertz, Texas. The following members present to-wit:
Members Present:
Councilmember Jill Whittaker – Chair Councilmember David Scagliola
P&Z Commissioner Jimmy Odom (remote) P&Z Commissioner Earl Platt
P&Z Commissioner Richard Braud
Councilmember Michael Dahle Absent
Staff Present:
Assistant City Manager Brian James City Secretary Brenda Dennis
Director of Planning & Community Development Lisa Wood
Planner Megan Harrison
Call to Order
Chair Whittaker called the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.
Hearing of Residents/Citizens to be Heard
No one signed up to speak.
Discussion and action items:
1. Approval of the minutes of the meeting of September 14, 2021.
Chair Whittaker recognized P&Z Commissioner Earl Platt who moved seconded by Councilmember David
Scagliola to approve the minutes of the meeting of September 14. The vote was unanimously approved.
2. Review Consensus of September 14, 2021, Meeting.
In summation, Mr. James reviewed the following with the committee:
– Current standards are generally fine – no need to reinvent the wheel.
– Hold firm to the 10’ side yard setback
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Code Zoning District Area
Sq. Ft. Width
Ft. Depth
Ft. Front
Ft. Side
Ft. Rear
Ft.
R-1 Single-Family
Residential
District-1 9,600 80 120 25 10 20
R-2 Single-Family
Residential
District-2 8,400 70 120 25 10 20
R-3 Two-Family
Residential
District 9,000 75 120 25 10 20
R-4
Apartment/Multi-
Family
Residential
District
10,000 100 100 25 10 20
R-6 Single-Family
Residential
District-6 7,200 60 120 25 10 20
R-7 Single-Family
Residential
District-7 6,600 60 110 25 10 20
Mr. James stated that last meeting they talked about the current development standards in terms of lot
size with setback depth/width regulations. Generally, the consensus was the current standards were
fine, no need to reinvent the wheel in terms of the lot width, depth, and setbacks. Key was really to
hold firm on these with side yard setback at 10ft in virtually in all the cases with a few rare exceptions.
Above are the zoning districts – as a reminder the R6 and R7 per ordinance can not be granted
anymore but will discuss later as to how we go forward and work into these. The assumption being
that where we would do PDDs we would tend to stick with these zoning districts as the subdistricts.
So, you could come in with a PDD, do a section as R2, section as R6, section as R7 – key is how we
communicate that out to those, given the prior council ordinance. The above zoning districts again
were fine and there was a feel to so smaller than 6600sq. ft. in most cases, but again there maybe those
exceptions with a really rare product.
He is looking for confirmation that everyone agrees where they ended up at the last meeting. Mr.
James received confirmation.
3. Discuss Development Standards
Mr. James discussed with the Committee members the following:
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– Review existing developments to establish what we want for:
– curvilinear streets
– Usable centrally located open space – consider in terms of lots – how many lots triggers an open
space and how big (in terms of lots)
– Mailbox bumpouts – to accommodate 2 cars or 3?
– Lot Size Distribution
Mr. James provided the following information and why we use Planned Development Districts (PDDs) – was
to really look at the subdivision layout and have a discretion of what that looks like, and if someone came in
with straight zoning R2, as long as they met our minimum standards, and as much as you may not like it, it
would have to be approved, thus again very gridded out streets, not required to have any open space within
the subdivision, not required to do mailbox bump outs – very uniformed lot sizes.
One of the reasons we have gone to the PDDs is to be able to tweak and require those. What we have talked
about is benefits (1) establish some general standards, so that when someone comes in we have something to
measure the development against – we have laid out how much open space you need for every so many lots,
how big that space needs to be, curvilinear streets and things like that; (2) someone comes in and has a small
project and just come in and develop it as R2 we still have criteria that requires them to do those things
within those. (Discussion more later in the presentation)
Mr. James stated that we will never quite achieve the same standards as much as we try to articulate those
requirements – there are those that can figure away around the ordinance.
• Mailbox Bumpouts – to accommodate 2 cars or 3?
Mr. James stated that one of the things people like are the mailbox bumpouts. We have the
subdivision, they have the communal mailbox, its out by the curb, but then there is on-street parking
and at times that can be problematic. Concept that was talked about is you have that notch out in the
road that allows cars to pull off the lane of traffic. Typically, it is a 12ft. indentation or expansion of
the road to accommodate that parallel parking (sometimes we tend to go a little wider) Question is
how many cars do you want to accommodate in that area? How long do you want that section to be?
In theory if you wanted 2 cars you would probably go 40 to 45ft to give it a little extra cushion. And
in theory if the school district wanted to locate bus stops there – they could use it as a bus stop if
there is not a car there.
Discussion with members were in consensus of accommodating 2 cars and if the school district will
be utilizing that as a temporary bus stop to accommodate for a bus, which the bus is roughly 40 to
42ft long then adjustment can also be made to accommodate them. Mr. James asked Megan if she
knew how many different mail stations are required based on lots they typically come in with? She
was unsure but Mr. James stated he would come back next week with the information.
Commissioner Braud suggested a possible cover for those areas – not sure if these could be mandated
or not. Mr. James stated that if that was something everyone like, then we could run it through to see
if they could. Mr. James received consensus of accommodating 2 cars and seeing the possibility of a
cover for those areas as well.
• Usable Centrally Located Open Space – consider in terms of lots – how many lots triggers an open
space and how big (in terms of lots) for the size wanted.
Mr. James stated that when you talk about centrally located open space – when staff is dealing
with a PDD they typically eyeball the subdivision and see a bunch of lots in an area and not
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open space – staff looks at the lotting pattern – then staff makes suggestions of 2 to 3 lots to be
converted into open space. Normal criteria for open space is based upon the number of lots in
the subdivision. Mr. James stated for example – you have a subdivision with 200 lots – you
would need to have an open space that is 1/2 acre or 2/3 acre – that is likely how they would
write the standard. Mr. James provided several examples of subdivisions through Google Earth
that look right to the committee, and they will calculate how many lots that is and how big that
is and provide that information. This is sort of an abstract concept as we have talked about lot
size and lot width.
Chair Whittaker asked can’t you just say for so much acreage that has home coverage on this
many acres, you need these many acres of open space? Because you are saying # of lots, if you
are in a neighborhood with larger lots, how would that be? Mr. James stated you could have a
couple of standards that could be done. You could come in and say for every 100 lots you need
a ½ acre of open space; or for every 33 acres that you come in with your plat for residential uses
you have to provide open space – the question really is do you want to deviate or a different
standard depending on the lot size for the subdivision?
In answer to Chair Whittaker question on requirements for different number of lots and sizes
could there be different standards. In answer Mr. James stated you can do something like for
every lot that is zoned R7 you need to have a 1-acre piece of open space for every 75 lots; for
R6 you would have to have ¾ acre for every 125 lots. If the concept is if the lots are bigger, kids
don’t need as much open space – you could word it that way as well. What do you want this
opens space to be for, just a place for kids to go out and play a touch football game – you do not
need a big area to do that.
Councilmember Scagliola asked what were the green space requirements for Parks and
Recreation right now? How many acres? He knows that they shy away from the 5 acre lots –
due to city having to maintain those. He stated that if those were broken up into smaller pieces,
then the city could get our requirements – instead of Parkland in lieu of funds – which he is
against. He stated that we have sufficient green space allocated for subdivisions just in the
Parkland requirement.
Mr. James stated that he is right – the issue is when we have a subdivision that comes in and
dedicates that park, that has at least 5 acres, the idea would be generally they would not have to
have that open space, but where we take cash in lieu of, there is no open space – the idea is how
do we come up with that.
Again, Councilmember Scagliola stated that he doesn’t have a problem with them owing is
more than 5 acres he just doesn’t want the city to be saddled with it. Would rather partition up
those 5 acres into a couple of 1-acre open spaces and disperse those throughout the subdivision.
He stated that every subdivision needs a little open space if nothing more than an old oak tree in
the center with some benches. Not City owned parks – do away with City owned parks – not
pocket parks. Mr. James stated the ideas to disperse them because typically if it is a big
neighborhood the city’s going to want to park. Then what we would like to have them disperse
that the kids would to be able to access that in the neighborhood.
Mr. James stated they are trying to get away from the city owned pocket type parks – too
expensive to maintain.
Megan Harrison Planner read the current Parkland dedication standard: Development of Areas
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Smaller Than Five (5) Acres. The development of park areas smaller than five (5) acres for
public park purposes is deemed to be impractical. If fewer than five (5) acres are proposed to
be created by a plat, then prior to filing the plat, the subdivider shall be required to pay to the
City the applicable cash payment-in-lieu of land. No plat showing a dedication of less than
five (5) acres for a public park shall be approved by the Planning and Zoning Commission.
While dedication of parkland to the City in an amount less than five (5) acres is deemed
impractical, it is the City's policy to encourage the development of private parkland in
accordance with this subsection and provide credit for development of these
private parklands accordingly.
Mr. James asked if she knew how much land that they have to give per lot? This is located in
the Fee Schedule, and it states the amount of land of land to dedicate per lot – it is 1 acre per
100 dwelling units. That is the normal standard for parkland. Mr. James stated if you wanted to
go with that we certainly could and say 1 acre per every 100 units and then we could put in a
provision that says they can’t be less than 1/2 acre in size each. What we could also do not
require the full amount within the subdivision, and they also would pay the difference in the fee.
Mr. James continued providing examples of how much land they could require as the members
discussed.
Members discussed City park standards, but again Mr. James stated that we are not trying to
modify that criterion. He thinks that if the developer comes in and has enough land to dedicate a
city park then were going to say generally you met your obligation for it. We want to avoid a
Mr. James showed an area on the overhead which was the property that has Wendy Swan then
how much land would we want and how we would want it spaced out. Mr. James continued to
show examples.
Chair Whittaker stated we already have requirements for open space within a development so
what we’re talking about here is in addition to, or if they don’t meet that, and how do the two
relate. We have either the Parkland requirement or cash in lieu of so how does this relate to
what we’re trying to decide on for open space.
Mr. James says is a couple of things typically the first area that were talking about is if they’re
not going to dedicate his city park, the concept is we still want you to have usable open space
for kids to play because you don’t have that City Park. The flipside is if you have a full city
park within that neighborhood and he would say generally that would satisfy the requirement.
But who would likely come up with a standard that says depending upon how big we may want
a couple of pocket parks, so there may be a city park and a couple of pocket parks to have some
usable land because it’s a big. This is what we are trying to do. So, what we need to talk about is
assume there’s not even be any city park how much open space do we want and where and how
do we want to locate it.
Chair Whittaker stated she would like to have something like a half-acre. Again Mr. James
showed Wendy Swan and the track land that we got is two acres. And in his mind for talking
about half-acre that’s enough area for kids to play football game and sit out there with a park
bench or something like that. He was saying the minimum size that we would want is a half-
acre. Maybe we would say for your first 200 lots it’s 1 acre per hundred, so your first 200 lots
have to provide 2 acres and then beyond that it’s a half-acre for every hundred lots.
Commissioner Braud asked if this would be HOA maintained, Mr. James indicated yes. Mr.
James stated to be clear we are not going to require anything be built in it, if the developer
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wants to use it as a selling point, they are welcome to, all we really want is (Mr. James went
back and showed Willow Grove) all we are really after is they have open space within the
subdivision and kids can go out there and play on it. Mr. James also stated that we probably
would have them graded it but if it’s wooded you don’t have to. Mr. James went back to the
piece of Willow Grove said it’s about 2.602 acres.
Commissioner Braud asked if detention ponds count as open space, answer was no it has to be
usable open space, area accessible. Mr. James also stated that the retention areas maintained by
the property owner, but the property owner could’ve made an agreement with the HOA to
maintain it. Mr. James stated has to be usable open space, it has to be located in an area that is
accessible by the lots. Can’t be out on the perimeter and tucked away behind some lots. We can
have some requirements for an amount of street frontage within the neighborhood. We can see
what we have and scale the lots for the criteria.
As Mr. James was reviewing Willow Grove, he stated that for the first 200 lots it would be 1
acre per hundred and then a half-acre per hundred thereafter. It has to be usable, can’t be
detention ponds and centrally located. Mr. James and the committee members reviewed other
subdivisions like Kramer Farms and how that was laid out for open space.
Councilmember Scagliola asked how that is going to affect the parkland dedication. In answer
Mr. James stated it’s not going to our current code allows and requires credit for private open
spaces. But it likely means we are going to require it then we will probably have less cash
coming in because they are required to do the open space. And moving forward if we need to
revisit our parkland dedication requirements and fees, they can do that. Mr. James explained
depending on the plans, staff will see where the open spaces are planned and if not usable, they
will make recommendations to correct it. He wants to make sure the subdivision lots are broken
up for adequate open space.
Councilmember Scagliola mentioned Kramer Farms and the small pocket parks and stated that
he would want something larger than that. Members reviewed the Kramer Farms area and not
enough land if we had another Kramer Farms come in.
Committee members and Mr. James stated that Willow Grove example is what we are looking
for and Kramer Farms is not.
Chair Whittaker stated in reiterating it is for 200 lots 2 acres and for the next hundred lots half-
acre which is similar is what we are seen in Willow Grove. Committee members were
comfortable with that.
• Curvilinear Streets
Mr. James stated that we have requirements in our code for amount of curve a street has to have if it
curves. He stated you could have a straight street, but what we have is if you are going to have curve
in it, it has to have the appropriate about of curve in it. Don’t want to slight of curve. The example
Mr. James provided was the streets curve enough to be fun driving but not enough to force you to
stay in your lane, this is what we want to avoid. We have requirements for tangents on roadways, but
we want to get a check from the commission what it is you like, we can then go back and measure
those and then that would become our standard. He provided the example of Cherry Tree and to him
is a problem, it doesn’t have enough curve in it as you are looking at the length of it, this is what we
want to avoid.
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Mr. James brought up Fairhaven as an example and asked if that road had enough curve in it. He
stated that it has a fair amount of curve in the middle but no curve on either end. To him this is not
what we want.
Chair Whittaker commented that if you look at the street in Willow Grove the curves make it feel
cozier not like a raceway. She likes how the streets are in that area because of the shorter curve
segments.
Committee members discussed the benefits of curvilinear streets, provided examples of subdivisions
with and without. Mr. James asked the members to tell him what streets they like and which streets
they do not like and will come up with the criteria.
Councilmember Scagliola commented on the Fairhaven area that it is not what we want due to it
being an area where those tend to speed. He also commented on Fairway Ridge which was another
area that encouraged speeding.
Chair Whittaker spoke about the Willow Grove and Belmont Park areas that this seems like the street
patterns we may like. She stated create the standards based on Belmont Park and Willow Grove.
Commissioner Braud stated that if we look at the Parklands, they asked them to provide the type of
street patterns we want, even somewhat in Homestead.
Mr. James asked that the members let him know which street patterns of the neighborhoods they like.
Chair Whittaker stated that she likes Willow Grove and Belmont Park as an example.
Commissioner Braud stated that in his subdivision there should have been more curvilinear street
standards, some of the areas on the straight-a ways residents tend to go pretty fast. Mr. James stated
that maybe we need to look at the typography of the area, specifically the slopes. Commissioner
Braud stated he is not opposed to Belmont Park but if they were to do it again, maybe put a little
more curve in it.
Commissioner Platt stated that he never considered the street typology, he doesn’t think it will
impact the speed people drive. It comes down to what people like, such as aesthetics. He is not
opposed to requiring standards, he just doesn’t think it matters.
Commissioner Odom state he is the same way in that he is not opposed to the Curvilinear streets it
does look better and does control the speed limits. His example would also be Belmont Park with a
little more curvature. He agrees that typography will have a play in it and keep in mind the size of the
development, smaller developments you may not have that ability due to the amount of land. The
larger developments we have seen come in over the last year he thought that they looked good as to
curvilinear streets and what staff is having the developers move to. Belmont Park with a little more
curvature and is also not opposed to the straighter streets.
Commissioner Platt stated that he does not support and does not like the majority of cul-de-sacs and
the dead-end streets. He believes they h be regulated that a little more – this is just his personal
preference.
Councilmember Scagliola stated he is a little indifferent when it comes to curves. Up in Fairhaven
they get the biggest complaints because it isn’t about the curve, it’s about the length of the road. If
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you were to break that length up it would be better. He likes Belmont Park and likes that parkway
and if that was a straight shot, he would have no problem with it, because it is a parkway and there
are no houses on either side of the parkway, it does what is supposed to do, it gets you from the
frontage road down to Wiederstein.
Mr. James stated, again what he is hearing is some don’t mind if you want to put curves in, they
don’t really add a lot and there are those that say put curves break of the view quarter, really helps
the aesthetics and we want to make sure we take that into account.
Commissioner Odom added stating that he lives in Reita and they Fairlawn Avenue, it’s bordered on
both sides with a round-about, that helps control the speed of traffic. But if you look at the actual
street between the round-abouts they still have a lot of complaints on speeding in that short of that
distance and believes that if it had more curve, it would slow down the cars.
Chair Whittaker stated so what she is hearing is people do not want straight-a-ways or gridded out
streets and there are those that are indifferent. What she would say is air on the side of concerns
which would be to have shorter stretches, more like Belmont Park and Willow Grove, that they are
good examples.
Mr. James concurred and now has a better feel of what the committee wants to do and will bring
back some criteria and standards at the next meeting.
• Lot Size Distribution – skipped this item discussion and went to Item 4.
4. Straight Zoning with Improved Development Standards vs. PDDs
Mr. James discussed with the Committee members the following:
Straight Zoning with Improved Development Standards vs. PPDs
– Can prevent gridded street pattern
– Quicker than a PDD
– Can zone a mix of districts
– Don’t have quite the same level of control.
– May allow more lots or smaller lots with a PDD
Mr. James stated next he wants to discuss the concept of straight zoning vs. PDD’s. A couple of things to
think about. Assuming we that we can prevent the gridded-out street patterns with the development
standards, we can require the open space and other things as discussed. The benefit of straight zoning is that
it is quicker than a Planned Development District because as long as you meet the criteria, we will move you
forward, you do not have to show us the layout on the straight zoning because it is in the development
standards.
On a large subdivision, a large tract of land they would essentially just zone smaller pieces, different zoning
districts. He stated that if we took Willow Grove and said we were not comfortable with it and take the
exhibit and as he showed areas and circle, stated that there could be R7 and other area R6 and the other half
R2. You could effectively achieve the same things by breaking it up. Again, we can have criteria you can
have certain number, you have to come in and zone all one zoning event, but you could basically go base
zoning districts and that lays it out. Mr. James stated the problem is you will never be able to get the same
level of control as you are with a PDD where you have the layout in front of you. As much as we write the
criteria never the same level of control. He stated that as much as we write the criteria, never the same
control.
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Chair Whittaker asked if he had skipped item 4 – lot sizes – in answer to her question, Mr. James stated that
he would be discussing it in this section. Mr. James stated that one of the things that we’ve talked about is
how big a pod do you really want other smaller lots, and what we talked about last time, when you do the
smaller lots on that section of road, and you have a narrower lots you have to break it up with a larger lot
dispersed throughout. This was sort of the concept, if we go back and have a developer that says I want to do
a pod of R7’s and is going to be 75 lots, the concept was you have to provide periodically a lot that is wider
than the 60 feet to break up those. So, every nine lots the 10th lot has to be at least 70 feet wide. That would
be the concept of entered dispersing that we talked about last time.
Chair Whittaker stated she actually think that works in reverse equally. She was talking about her cul-de-sac
earlier today and they have several large houses and because we have a couple of small houses next to them
it breaks up the mass of the big houses, which she thinks as they did discuss before, it breaks up the
congestion. So, adding in a small house within that kind of makes it feel more open. Again, she stated it can
work both ways.
Mr. James stated what he kind of kicked around was really every 10th lot can vary. So, if you go R2 you can
come in have a smaller lot that isn’t the 70 feet wide but is a 60 foot wide thrown in and then conversely you
do the smaller district, the R6 or R7 you have to have a 70-foot lot thrown in every 10th one, that’s an
arbitrarily random number. The problem we have heard from developers on this, they are saying okay you
got a pod, their marketing one product type and you have bit a variation in terms of lots, but they are not
really going to intersperse the lots. Say you have a pod of 100 lots and then literately randomly mix
throughout they have R2’s in R6’s. They just will not do it.
What we thought about is the way to throw in a little bit of variation, so if you want a little bit smaller lot,
there’s one in there, and if you want a bit bigger lot there’s one in there that breaks up the monotony of the
view a bit and we think they will market that. But the concept of within that pod have three different lot
sizes, 60,65, 70’s we cannot get anybody to do that because of how they market the home type. The
variability that they have is a function of the curvilinear street that would require them to do it becomes
problematic for them. It would be by happen chance to get it because of the curvilinear pattern requirement.
Chair Whittaker stated so the lot size distribution that you are saying is not feasible for the developers. An
answer, Mr. James stated the developer say that if you really want to mix those lot size within a pod that’s
not feasible. Chair Whittaker asked what if they did a requirement for single-story versus two-story within a
10-home pod or grouping, for every 10 homes there has to be 2 2-stories, within the 10 homes there has to be
something like two single stories and something like that.
In answer, Mr. James stated that staff is not real enthusiastic about it, we get why, but the problem becomes
because the zoning and runs with the land and may not an issue for the first 30-35 years, someone sitting
here 40-50 years from now people are wanting to add on to houses or make adjustments and we say no your
neighbor can do it you can’t because you’re capped at the single-story. That’s where that becomes
problematic. There is also that issue and how we pick which ones, are you going to alternate, are you going
to randomly do it, I was going to pick one. We say okay you have 100 lots, 50 can be one and 50 can be the
other and will keep track as we go. If one proves more popular it is what it is over left to tell the builder sorry
these have to be single-story, then say that’s not what the market is bearing. Mr. James stated that’s where
that is a problem.
Chair Whittaker stated that while they already do it by picking a different layout because the developer says
now you can’t have that one, you have to pick another even with elevation but sometimes the elevations
change, and they want certain floor plans like across the street are side-by-side kind of thing. The builder
does it but what you’re saying is a zoning requirement it becomes problematic. Mr. James stated yes it
becomes problematic because they sort of control that, and they had the ability to say how much they want to
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allow and how they very. The problem is us on the front end dealing with the developer and they don’t even
know who the builders are, we are trying to determine that on the front end and it becomes problematic.
Mr. James stated he gets the concept of one of the questions is, is there a neighborhood you can point to that
you feel like has too many 2-stories and then we can come back and say, why they have all those 2-stories
versus one story and why does it have all those 2-stories vs. one story. Or does it work itself out in the end?
Chair Whittaker stated that she thinks what works out in the end and over time the landscaping and the trees
get taller you don’t notice that things look so cookie-cutter because the trees, breakup that monotony. Chair
Whittaker provided an example of a neighborhood in the New Braunfels that is painfully monotonous – long
straights street and one little live oak etc., is all two-story after two-story.
Mr. James was able to pull it up on the Google search is a this is a great example of probably what we don’t
want. He stated what they have is long straight shots, it’s a really gridded pattern there is not a lot of curve
and this is probably where we want to discuss this, is where you get into that variation you tend to go with a,
and he bets the price point is a lot lower, it’s like younger families need two-story house they can afford it
and the builders are cramming the homes in there. This would be his guess. Chair Whittaker stated it was
Dove Crossing Road. Mr. James stated to me what it comes down to what’s the look and feel of the
subdivision and where we think there is a problem.
Chair Whittaker asked what the tree requirement in a new subdivision was. In answer, three trees and you
have a choice of where you want to put those trees, but you have to have one in the front yard and one in the
back and then put the other wherever you want it. Chair Whittaker stated but the builder can put the same
tree in the exact same spot in every front yard, in answer that is correct.
Mr. James stated okay we talk about neighborhoods that we like; Jonas Woods is one that we use as an
example of where they did a really good job of preserving trees. It has bigger trees, it looks really great,
where you have some typography that helps break it up. Or where you have the flat field and no trees that is
where it doesn’t look good on the front end. He also thinks it has to do with price point. If it a much more
expensive subdivision like Laura Heights, you tend to find that people do a bit more with landscaping out up
by the houses and it looks a little bit better. If you take a subdivision that isn’t as high as price point you will
see where there is not as much done, and it doesn’t have the same look and feel - it is different and those are
things he believes affect it. He stated that if you go back to the first point that was made at the first meeting,
we want to consider affordability, this is part of the stuff that plays into it. He stated that what he is hearing is
that the committee members are ok with some of this (as he was showing example) done a bit better, not as
many lots, not so massive and that’s ok, but it’s the balance. He received concurrence.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that Mr. James earlier was talking about straight zoning – 8400 sq. foot lots,
he really doesn’t see them doing that they have that option or going with a PDD, you know their going with a
PDD. Mr. James stated that what we would do is essentially go back and eliminate the ordinance and say we
won’t grant R6 and R7, and someone could walk in and go straight zoning, if they had 100 acres, they could
say they are doing 25 R7’s, 25 R6’s and 50 of it R2 and it is straight zoning and don’t need to see the layout
and they are just defining those boxes.
Chair Whittaker stated that if they are going to do that with a PDD, because you are telling us they can’t
intersperse the lot sizes, they are going to do it anyway but what she and he talked about all of these
requirements being part of a PDD when they come to us, if you incorporate that into the straight zoning then
you already say here is your requirements, if you want to do that straight zoning in those little pods, you still
have to do those things, yes in answer by Mr. James. She is ok with that if we are allowing that anyway and
we are not going to get that intermingling within a PDD. She asked do you limit the size of that. In answer
Mr. James yes he believes that is what they would do, we would come up with criteria to limit the size of
those pods and say as much as we try to lay out that criteria we are never going to have a much control, If
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you want to get a bit more density with the PDD that he can see the layout, and air on the side of caution on
the straight zoning. We would probably not give you as much density as many small lots as straight zoning
as we would potentially through a PDD, but you don’t have to go through that.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that if they are going to do straight zoning for a garden home, or straight
zoning for R7 or R6 – No thank you, but if they want to do R2, 8400 sq. ft, then ok we will allow you now to
go that straight zoning with the other two categories or three categories as well? Is that what he is hearing? In
answer, Mr. James stated yes that makes sense, so the question for the committee is are you willing to allow
small lots at all, even if revised development standards from straight zoning or inherently are you saying if
you want to R6 or R7’s as much as we have this criteria and we now apply it to bigger lots, I want you to go
with a PDD and you want to see that layout? That’s the policy question. Councilmember Scagliola stated
that it was interesting even a PDD the direction we are going in is you are not going to have a PDD with all
R7’s.
In answer, yes. You can not have all R7’s, you have to have that mix of lot sizes, but the question again, is if
someone walks in and says they want to do a mix of R6, R7 and R2 is the direction we are going, if you want
to have any R6’s and R7’s then you have to go PDD. If you want to walk in and do all R2’s we have the
criteria now, don’t need to see the layout. That’s the crutch, and he believes staff understood is if we could
come up with some of these criteria, there would be a comfort level allowing some of the R6 and some of the
R7’s straight zoning as long we had the criteria that controlled the things that we have been speaking about.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that brings him back around to the question on percentages of the other lot
sizes, because apparently it is a little easier to go straight zoning for the developer and for city staff. In
answer, Mr. James state it is. Councilmember Scaglione stated so if we establish, and he’s thrown a number
out here, like 40% R2 40% and 40% R6 and 20% R7 you could do straight zoning with that. Okay here’s the
ball go and run with it, and it would cut down on a development timeframe that would be his guess. Mr.
James stated that would be essentially the issue we would say if you’re getting a straight zoning, we are
going to limit the smaller lots whatever that number is appropriate or percentages we are going to have this
development criteria and you can go straight zoning.
Chair Whittaker stated she wanted to chime in because she thinks they’re talking about two different things.
The percentage of different size lots has to be a PDD, you can’t have a straight zoning unless it’s larger,
correct? You can go straight zoning R2 as long as it has a minimum of 8400 sg. ft and larger, we are talking
about R6’s and R7’s and so the smaller lots, if you want to come in and do just those lots sizes and is not part
of a larger lot , it’s just a development with these smaller lot sizes, incorporating in all these criteria that we
just talked about – incorporating that into the straight zoning, would we be ok with a smaller development of
all the smaller lots? She would say, yes if we limit the land space used or total number of lots per
neighborhood. And back to the concern of affordability, she believes that this is one way you could fine more
affordable new construction houses if you did allow, a bit small, but she again needs to see a neighborhood
that feels like if we just took this amount of land space and just put the smaller lot sizes, as with all the other
things we just talked about, we would be comfortable seeing that in Schertz – but not like 400 acres. She
went back to Willow Grove as an example – and you say ½ of that neighborhood, would you feel
comfortable because the south side of Willow Grove is just Willow Grove and the north side is Willow
Grove estates and they have the larger lots, south side has the smaller lots. Is that the land mass we are
comfortable with saying “Look at this cute neighborhood”?
Chair Whittaker stated back to the subcommittee how does each one of you feel about allowing a developer
to come in and take a smaller mass of land, and you keep it within a certain size, we would allow you to do
R6 or R7’s. Councilmember Scagliola answered No. Councilmember Platt is also opposed. He doesn’t think
under straight zoning, even with a PDD’s and the justification and is too time consuming and too expensive
for developers to come in and go through the process, He doesn’t want developers to come into the city that
don’t have the resources and not proficient enough to go thorough the PDD process and give us a good
product. He doesn’t want us to make it easier for a smaller company to come in and just throw some houses
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up in substandard smaller lots packed together and they can do it now because we have changed this zoning
for them.
Chair Whittaker stated that all the criteria we just talked about for a PDD, for example, looking at Willow
Grove a standard new neighborhood coming in would be about 4 times the size of Willow Grove, developers
are telling us that they are going to use 4 times that land mass, 4 times the number of houses, and because
they can’t intersperse their lot sizes, what they want is pods, so what they are going to do is a pod of R6’s
and pod of R7’s and a pod of R2’s because you just told us we cannot intersperse so I am going to do a pod
and when all said an done it is going to look like Willow Grove with a section of R6, a section of R7 so you
are comfortable him doing that but you are not comfortable with him doing one neighborhood small the size
of one of those pods individually. Commissioner Platt stated he doesn’t know why they couldn’t intersperse
the different zoning into the communities. In answer, Chair Whittaker stated a developer may just want to
provide one product and keep it more consistent for cost reasons and marketing purposes. Maybe they just
don’t want a neighborhood with those between $200,000 and $300,000 and $600,000. They just want to have
a neighborhood that advertises as in the low $300,000’s.
Mr. James stated, and he thinks that if the developer doesn’t have a lot of land, they don’t have enough to do
two pods, so for instance if we go back to Misty Woods, that was so small that they could not have done two
different pod types. So, we certainly could come in and say I want to do straight zoning, the biggest pod or
the biggest zoning parcel could go R7, which is X number of acres, we will cap it at 30 acres, and R6 you
could do 40 acres maybe a little bit bigger, so maybe we can cap it that way.
So, the question is if somebody came in and said they just have a small parcel of land and have like 25 acres
and it makes sense you can’t mix product type in there, and we say this is a good area for some smaller lots,
and we think that would be a good area to do a relatively affordable residential neighborhood, say R6’s – 20-
we have this development criteria would we be ok with going straight zoning on it? The difference that
would get us from straight zoning to PDD is the PDD would let us look at that street layout and lotting
pattern. Commissioner Platt also stated that you could have input into the platting process as well. Mr. James
stated that what he is hearing from some of the subcommittee members is nope, if they want to do that, yes,
we want to see that layout because no matter how we come up with that criteria, they will know it when they
see it a bit and they can take it and tweak it and run the risk to play with it. Other members are saying Nope,
we want to try and make it a little easier to get through the process for that affordability, we have the criteria
now, we have limited the worst-case scenario.
Chair Whittaker stated that she feels like part of the purpose of the Subcommittee is to reduce that
micromanagement when we get to the PDD discussion. If we have spent this much time over four weeks
trying to hammer out what we as a group and as a city see as our minimum standards then applying that to
either straight zoning or PDD process, it should streamline the whole process. But if we are saying we are
good with it right now and all these standards, to her forcing them into a PDD and having to review every
single neighborhood is very much micromanagement. To her it is just a philosophy she is not comfortable
with. She loves that Schertz has higher standards and you can see the affect of that but from a development
side of it, and she has probably heard it the last five times where Schertz is difficult to work with. To her
being the new councilmember this is where she would see it being the realization of that reputation is
because we are being really hard on providing opportunity of a developer to come in making it a little easier
for them, because if we say we have to review every single development, and again she is calling it
micromanagement, she feels we as a city should probably work a little harder to allow a little bit more
streamline opportunities for people. She feels like if we are ok within a PDD of allowing a pod of certain size
of R6 and R7, she feels like it’s equally safe to say a developer should be able to take a smaller plot of land
and do the exact same thing he was going to do in a PDD with out us looking over his shoulder because we
have incorporated these things that we have worked really hard to agree on is what we want to set as our
minimum standards. That is why she would suggest allowing R6 and R7 straight zoning options for
developers is a good thing, it would actually provide more variety within the city as long as we keep it as a
9-21-2021 Minutes Page - 13 -
smaller development.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that he kind of takes exception to that because there was a specific reason
we did away with the smaller lots – they renamed them. That discussion goes back about ten years almost.
As far as PDD’s go the way he sees it now some developers, and he isn’t going to name names, but is taking
advantage of the PDD process, allowing to back door some of the really small lots in the name of a PDD.
Chair Whittaker stated that if you have straight zoning and you have requirements in that straight zoning,
there is no back door, there is no coming to PDD and say I am going to slip this in and get approval because
there are gray areas, straight zoning has very clear restrictions and they can’t back door any of those.
Commissioner Platt stated that straight zoning would just allow them to come in and skip that PDD process
and the planning and zoning commission and just do it anyway.
Chair Whittaker stated that within the straight zoning all the things that you are going to be checking for
during the PDD process they could sneak in again because there is a lot of gray areas, we are already
establishing those minimum requirements, 10 foot setbacks, curvilinear within so many spaces, bumpouts,
open space etc., we are incorporating that into that straight zoning and reducing the land mass, so she doesn’t
know what that land mass allowance was back when your cut it, so if there were no restrictions, yes you
could come in and have thousands of acres and say all 50 ft lots, yes it would be a nightmare but we have
gotten to the point where we have bored down to the, what is it that is really bothersome about these small
lots. She thinks that they have identified, each person has said what they don’t like the way that looks, or the
way that looks, and have said what can we do to make not look like that. She thinks bringing back those R6
and R7wit the different zoning, not the same as before, it’s a new category with new restrictions on it, it is
getting us where we want to be and also allowing some opportunities for developers to streamline their
processes. If they so choose, there may not be a demand for smaller developments.
Mr. James stated that there would be a demand for smaller developments and he offered what staff can do for
the next meeting we will try and work this up this week and send it out Friday so you can review it, and we
will come up with what these standards would look like, maybe not the final be all, but we will basically say
here is the curvilinear standard, here is the open space standard, here is the bumpout for mailbox standards,
some variability, this is the maximum acreage you could come in and just go as a straight zoning R7, the
maximum, you could do R6 and lay that out so you could see what it looks like. The fundamental issue really
comes down to, is at the end of the day can be get there?
How much do you want to say, put these standards in and within those criteria you are fine with them doing
what they are going to do on straight zoning versus the other side, and say I am so concerned and cautious
about that, even with the new requirements, because they can manipulate and play, if we are going to let
them do the smaller lots you are going to want to look at that layout and be able to make those adjustments
and qualitative changes.
He believes that is what the balance is and a couple of things that staff would say is, we would agree with
developers say Schertz if very difficult in terms of staff and things they have to work with in what they are
pushing for on residential subdivisions, that is accurate. What we understand is that what Planning and
Zoning and Council expect of us to do in the past, and yes, you guys are supposed to hold firm to that. Staff
would agree. Commissioner Platt stated that he doesn’t think that that is a bad thing. Mr. James stated yes,
that is not necessarily a bad thing – yes staff would say we are more difficult, it takes longer to get though
the process for residential layout. There are drawbacks to that, in terms of cost, in terms of time and
frustration, but the flip side of that, and staff would tell you, folks here are hypersensitive, and this is meant
to be boards and commissioners, engaged citizens on something being built here that does not meet their
expectations or desires.
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We are littered with ordinance provisions that came about because one person came in and built something,
we didn’t like it, and __ forbid it every happens again, and I have to regulate it out. He doesn’t mean this as a
criticism but inherently when we write regulations, if we want to prevent anything bad happening, we are
going to hang up a lot of people that we did not intend to. We can make it easier and not hang up as many
people, but it is going to mean we are going to have a couple of people slip by. He gave an example of this,
the color of the building on main street, he has not heard anyone say they like it, but the question is, is that
coming in as we need to regulate color, that the bit of flip side. Inherently we are going to have some one
come in do something, and then we asked is that the way I would have done it and is it really the end of
world going forward, and he thinks that’s the balance we have to strike.
Lastly, it was mentioned that we need some affordability, and doesn’t think anyone in the group is going to
point to the more affordable stuff that comes in that achieves that goal and say that’s the neighborhood I like
the most. If we want this, we have already had some new criteria, it is going to mean that it is letting them
come in and lay it out what meets and not micromanaging, which he thinks is an accurate term.
Commissioner Platt asked the PDD’s were developed based off of the statue, government code 7a211.0 gives
us the ability to regulate a lot of things, lot size, coverage, etc., that’s what the PDD is based off of, so how
would that apply to straight zoning? This takes the oversight and the ability to regulate and leave us out of it.
Mr. James stated we can put a lot of that into our straight zoning development standards. Think about the site
plans we do, most of commercial site plans we do are straight zoning, they are not PDD’s, we have a few that
are PDD’s that come in, so think about gas station/convenient stores, they are an SUP, it requires the layout,
that SUP is like a PDD, you get to look at the layout. We can build in those development requirements and as
Commissioner Braud has said in the past, when these commercial plans come in, he is not thrilled with the
anything about them, didn’t like certain things, but we are ok letting those go in and it would be the same
thing with residential. That is the analogy he would give. What you really give up with straight zoning is you
don’t have that lotting pattern, you have the criteria of the minimums, curvilinear streets, etc., but you don’t
get to look at the layout in advance.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that the other big key that he sees is the lot sizes, because he can almost
guarantee if you open up R7’s or garden homes you are going to get flooded with people who have 100
acres, they want to put 100 acres worth of garden homes, or 100 acres of R6’s.
Mr. James stated so this would be the example of what we have talked about is, if some one walked in with
100 acres and said that they want to go straight zoning and want to come in with all R7’s we would say No,
you are not going to get it. We would tell them and say the criteria we established, and he is going to make
this up, if you are doing R7 the biggest pod you could have of R7 is 20 acres and you can’t have more than
25% of that land mass you come in with the 100 acres designated for R7.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that that is what he had recommended before 40, 40, 20 and I was told no
you can’t do that because that by definition is a PDD. In answer, Mr. James stated to be clear we can get
most of what you wanted to do with that, we can’t regulate the number of lots but can regulate the acreage.
Councilmember Scagliola stated that you could also do that as a percentage of the acreage, as to oppose the
percentage of the homes – where do we get it drawn out?
Again, just as an analogy, as Mr. James is showing on the computer view, imaging that this is 100 acres of
land, what they can walk in and do is basically with the zoning exhibit, they can come in and say – as he was
showing – this is R7, this is R6, and the rest is R2. As he was still showing, if we know that this is 100 acres,
he can cap a certain piece at no more than 25 acres, and do 40 acres, here and do 55 there and it is not to
scale, he can do that, but I can’t regulate the number of lots within each of those areas. Question from
Scagliola, that’s acreage, answer, that’s acreage. Councilmember Scagliola stated that he has no problem
with that. He wants to discuss the appropriate number, in answer Mr. James stated he can lay out the criteria
as a percentage and then when he goes to zone, he does it by acreage, he just can’t cap the number of lots.
9-21-2021 Minutes Page - 15 -
Councilmember Scagliola stated that is fine and you have to do the curvilinear streets, the bumpouts etc., you
do not have to do a PDD. Answer yes. Don’t need to see your lotting pattern. Councilmember Scagliola
would like to see some of these examples, because in Saddle Wood that is not what happened, it was like
45% of those were smaller lots and where the median is, no that isn’t right. You have 49 R7’s and 51 R6’s
the median is an R6. In answer, Mr. James stated staff does not use median, when they talk about it, we use a
median and a mean together as a measure. Councilmember Scagliola stated that he doesn’t have a problem
with what he drew out he thinks it’s feasible, now if we can just come to the consensus basing it on 100 acres
or so the correct number acres for parts A, B and C.
In conclusion, Mr. James stated that he will come back next time, and by Friday he will email out the criteria
for them to review. He will layout how this concept would work and then next time what we really need to
talk about is what is that mix in terms of, if you have that 100 acre track how many acres R7, how many
acres R6 if you just have a smaller track of land, how big are you willing to go R7 or R6.
Commissioner Braud stated to save time he is with Chair Whittaker that if we make these modifications the
R6 and R7 won’t be the ugly duckling that they have been in the past. He likes what Mr. James is saying,
give us some examples of what putting in all these new regulations would look like and modifying R6 and
R7 to fit this, he believes it will work.
5. Summarize Consensus.
Chair Whittaker stated the last thing is summarize consensus and we have gone through each of these in
depth so we will trust that Mr. James will basically put in on paper what our consensus was so we can
visually look and think about it before we come back to the next meeting. Mr. James answered correct, and
he will send that out Friday.
Adjournment
As there was no further business, Chair Whittaker adjourned the meeting at 5:50 p.m.
_______________________________
Councilmember Jill Whittaker, Chair
ATTEST:
__________________________________
Brenda Dennis, City Secretary
9-28-2021 Minutes Page - 1 -
MINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
September 28, 2021
A Regular Meeting was held by the City Council and Planning & Zoning Subcommittee of the City of
Schertz, Texas, on September 21, 2021, at 4:00 p.m. at the Hal Baldwin Municipal Complex Council
Chambers Conference Room located at 1400 Schertz Parkway, Schertz, Texas. The following members
present to-wit:
Members Present:
Councilmember Jill Whittaker – Chair Councilmember David Scagliola
P&Z Commissioner Jimmy Odom (remote) P&Z Commissioner Earl Platt
P&Z Commissioner Richard Braud Mayor Pro-Tem Michael Dahle
Staff Present:
Assistant City Manager Brian James Deputy City Secretary Sheila Edmondson
Director of Planning & Community Development Lisa Wood
Planner Megan Harrison
Call to order
Councilmember Whittaker call ed the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.
Citizens to be Heard
No one signed up to speak.
Discussion and/or Action Items
1. Approval of the minutes of the meeting of September 21, 2021.
The minutes from the September 21, 2021, were not available and will be on the next agenda for
approval.
2. Review Consensus of September 21, 2021, Meeting.
• Curvilinear Streets
• Usable Centrally Located Open Space
• Mailbox Bumpouts
• Lot Size Distribution
3. Discussion regarding Straight Zoning with Improved Development Standards vs. PDD’s.
4. Discussion regarding the Tree Mitigation Program.
9-28-2021 Minutes Page - 2 -
Summarize Consensus
Assistant City Manager Brian James opened up the discussion stating if we can write design
standards on new subdivisions that accomplish what we want, then we have the ability to with
straight zoning with restrictions and limitations and Planned Development Districts (PDD). The
design criteria will be put into a checklist that the Planning and Zoning, City Council, Public and
Developers can have that will let everyone know what is expected for any projected submitted. Mr.
James then continued and summarized on what staff understood what those standards were.
1. Mailbox Bumpouts: The parking of the bumpouts for mailboxes. What staff sent in as a proposal,
was that we are going in with having 2 parking spaces per mailboxes. We contemplated that they
would bumpout the street and provide those as parallel parking spaces and use the current parallel
parking requirements. It would be 8 feet by 22 feet which Staff feel is sufficient. It would also
accommodate a bus if the bus wanted to pull over and use it as a bus stop. There was a question that
if the consensus wanted to require it have a cover over the area for residents picking up their mail. It
will benefit students if the buses use this area for picking up and dropping off students. Staff
recommendation is use 2 spaces that we normally have for spaces: if you wanted to off-street spaces,
then it follows the normal requirements which is 10’ x 20’ space or if it’s on-street it follows the
parallel spaces requirements, additionally do you want it covered. Mr. Brian James asked if the sub-
committee was in agreement with that.
Chairman Whittaker asked if there ware any objections. There were none. She stated that adding the
cover up was a good idea and asked if the sub-committee was in favor of adding this as a
requirement to the communal mailboxes to have a cover. The sub-committee agreed on all three
recommendations.
The next standard Mr. James brought forward to discuss was the Parks and Open Space requirement.
The standard that staff drafted is that 435.6 square feet of usable open space per residential lot is
required for the first 200 lots. This equates to for every 100 lots you need 1 acre of usable open
space. With the first 200 lots that would be 2 acres of usable open space. For every 100 lots after
that, it requires an additional ½ acre of usable open space. The general criteria is that the open space
needs to be a minimum ½ acre, not encumbered by easements and located to be accessible by the
neighborhood.
Chairman Whittaker stated at the previous meeting the open space presentation was very informative
and she is comfortable with the staff recommendations. She asked if any sub-committee members
had any questions.
Councilmember Scagliola asked these requirements meet up with the Parkland Dedication
requirements.
Mr. James confirmed it is generally consistent with the Parkland dedication requirements; 1 acre for
every 100 dwelling units. He did continue to explain that a development that comes in and doesn’t
have a park has to have this private open space. The developers do have the ability to get ½ credit for
the park requirement but shouldn’t be an issue because the open space private is less than the park
requirement. So must likely, they will provide a private open space and they will still have to pay
parkland dedication fee cash in lieu.
9-28-2021 Minutes Page - 3 -
Councilmember Scagliola commented that we can make more in parkland in lieu of fees instead of
open spaces. He asked with both options, which would a developer prefer? What would the incentive
be for the developer to go with a larger park?
Mr. James explained what we typically see when a developer has enough lots and land to warrant
dedicating that city park that is 5 acres minimum, they view that as an amenity to help sell lots. They
will use that in marketing as the same way they would if an elementary school was nearby. From the
developer’s perspective, they are going to have to pay cash or give up land, they will give up land
and benefit from advertising that as a selling point in their community. On the other end, if the
developer does not have a lot of land, they would view giving up land because their lots have more
value, so it varies, but most understand you are going to pay either way.
To summarize, what staff has drafted is that if there is not a city park dedicated, the developer has to
provide a private open space, so every subdivision will have either one of these options once these
standards are passed.
Mr. James asked the subcommittee to comment and clarify if subdivision plans include private open
spaces, do the plans need to go through the Parks Board for approval prior to Planning and Zoning?
Plans with city dedicated parks do or is this an unnecessary step in the development process since it
is private open spaces.
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle asked since we are mandating open space for developments, are we
mandating any type of improvements. Mr. James explained we would not mandate improvements on
these open spaces. As to the comment of having Parks and Rec look at the plans with private open
spaces, he is fine either way, but to simplify the process, have only Planning and Zoning review the
plans.
Chairman Whittaker agreed with only requiring Planning and Zoning to review the plans with
private open spaces. Councilmember Scagliola likes to have all the interested parties look at all the
plans (both Parks and Planning/Zoning), but if both of those committees are in agreement to this, he
would agree to move the developing process along. The rest of the sub-committee were in agreement
as well.
Mr. James reviewed the discussion of R6 and R7 lots wanting to have some variation in lot size from
the September 21, 2021, meeting. From the discussion:
R6-Would allow Straight Zoning with 30 acres or less.
R7-Would allow Straight Zoning with 20 acres or less
Chairman Whittaker explained that with these two options, developers with smaller parcels of land
can work within these standards. The developers that come in with larger parcels and are requesting
a PDD, the city was asking those developers for the different size lots to be interspersed with the
development. The feedback we are getting back is that those developers would not be able to do that,
and they would still be coming in with R6 and R7’s in block sections. An option for the small parcel
land owners would be if you owned a smaller parcel of land where you don’t have the ability to have
a variety of sizes, the straight zoning option for a limited parcel size allows developers to come in
with a particular product that makes sense for that parcel. With these proposed restrictions, they
would still be required to have private open spaces, covered mailboxes, etc. It allows one more
option for the small parcel land owners. If the developers with large parcels of land requesting a
PDD would be able to block sections of their development with R6 and R7’s, why not allow the
smaller parcel land owners the ability to do this with straight zoning.
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Chairman Whittaker did have questions about developers who have 100+ acres coming in and
breaking up their parcel in 20-acre sections and wanting to do straight zoning, how do you buffer
those areas, so they do not do anything similar next to those areas.
Mr. James indicated staff would need to work through these possibilities with developers. Staff does
not want to see developers that would normally come in as a 100+ acre development and break it up
in 20 acre increments to develop blocks of R6 and R7’s. Staff would like the developer to limit the
amount of R6 and R7’s in large areas. Staff would also let developers know if other small parcels
around their area are already zoned R6 and R7 and limit them, even if they are owned by different
owners. The benefit for small developers’ who do not have as much time or money, this would allow
to get them through process fairly quickly.
For bigger tracts of land, the two things I believe we will see now that we have laid out the criteria it
narrows the range of what we are going to allow and not left it open ended, that move through a little
more quickly, but also larger parcels of land, developers are more creative and can spend more time
and money to increase the lot yield.
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle asked about if a developer had 500+ acres plan and staff would limit the R6
and R7’s within those zones, so how do you work with the box layout. Mr. James said staff deal with
that and that would be in inherent problem and there is no perfect solution. Staff does not want
developers coming in and straight zone for it and holding that up forever. Staff also knows that the
sub-committee does not want to see a lot of small parcels owned by different owners all requesting
the straight zoning for R6 just because they are small parcels and end up having a large area of the
same zoning but made up of all these small parcels. Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle asked about developers
who have might have approx. 100+ acres and wanting to zone 20 acres of it and then come back later
and piece out another 20 acres of the same zoning. Mr. James explained staff felt there were enough
of the R7 zoning in a large area of land, they would not want another R-7 next to it. Mr. James stated
staff would have to see what property owners are out there and kind of see where they might these
issues. Again, he stated there is no perfect solution.
Councilmember Scagliola stated he is not in favor of straight zoning for R7’s. He does like the larger
plats that are out there can subdivide. It is an integrity issue of the entire community and would like
to see a lot of homes being built by one developer that take on a certain characteristic. With the
design standards, you would not have a bunch of mix-matched homes. That would be the incentive
to develop these large areas that look like this, for example with Cross Vine, where we allowed them
to have certain things because they consolidated all that acreage and took on a certain flavor.
Mr. James agreed that there are some advantages to having a large parcel being developed as one
project, however there are a lot of smaller parcels out there and cannot come in as a bigger piece. For
that reason, we will need to make some provision for that. The question is do you want to force those
smaller pieces to go bigger as R2 or are you willing to allow those who come in as smaller
subdivisions.
Councilmember Scagliola asked how do we get garden homes into the city? He would like to see
more garden homes, but he is not in favor of straight zoning for garden homes or R7’s. He would
like to see a variety out there. Mr. James explained that if we do want garden homes in the city, we
need to make it easier for the developers to do with an option of straight zoning for this. This is the
flip of this, is if we are saying we want garden homes, but we are going to take 6-9 months to get
approved, this is not going to attract developers to do this. Councilmember Scagliola stated that
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would be the benefit of a PDD to get some garden homes in but does not like straight zoning for it.
Chairman Whittaker stated that what they discussed last week was, Riata, with the smaller lot sizes,
could not be built today because it is a large of a land space to accommodate either category of the
limits of R6-30 acres or less or R7-20 acres or less. She explained that Mr. James is trying to narrow
down what the concern is and see if these suggestions we are discussing today address those
concerns. If the concern is that we are going to have wall to wall R6 and R7’s, then what we put in
place with these limits make sure that issue has been eliminated with the limits of R6-30 acres and
R7-20 categories. Developers will not be able to put one next door and next door without a buffer.
For the committee members that are concerned about straight zoning, we need to pinpoint exactly
the concern, because those concerns will be there with PDD’s as well. This particular solution
solves that problem in limiting the land mass and overall feeling of wall to wall, cookie-cutter type
houses that are crammed in there. So, we addressed all of those issues and Chairman Whittaker
stated we limited the land mass for R6 and R7’s. She asked if the sub-committee had other concerns.
Commissioner Platt has concerns that these solutions will cause a patchwork of smaller
neighborhoods of R6 and R7’s and then the neighbors next to these parcels would want to know why
they cannot be zoned R6 and R7’s. He also has concerns that with straight zoning, the landscape will
be a patchwork R6 and R7’s without oversight like they have with a PDD. Mr. Platt would like to
keep the straight zoning for only R2’s and the rest with PDD’s for the developer to have flexibility.
Chairman Whittaker stated the other concerns she is hearing is that larger parcels could be chopped
into smaller lots to get straight zoning and how do we address that.
Commissioner Richard Braud mentioned that the Haley Subdivisions came in with four different
developments. It has happened before, and Haley was a large parcel of land that could have been
brought in a one development but wasn’t.
Mr. James replied to Mayor Pro-Tem’s question, is how tricky we want to get with this sort of
solution? One option is to define larger areas in the city by looking at the Thorough-Fare Plan and
look at the natural topography and see what the acreage is and based on that acreage we would want
to limit R6 and R7’s. The worst option would be ‘first come, first served’, whoever comes in first
and requests these R6 and R7’s zoning gets it and everyone else would have to come in and do
bigger lots or a PDD. Hopefully we can talk to the city attorney and see if we can have some kind of
SUP, so we don’t have developers come in and zone R6 or R7 and if you don’t file the plat within a
certain time frame, the zoning expires. We can see if something like that would be possible.
Mr. James stated even with the details worked out on these solutions, he feels some on the sub-
committee were still not comfortable with straight zoning on these small lots. Commissioner Odom
and Councilmember Scagliola concurred.
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle asked how many homes were in Kramer Farms. There are 307 homes on 62
acres. Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle continued to explain that if this development came in today, looking at
the design standards we would require some open space, which currently Kramer Farms does not
have. Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle stated he struggles with entitling that by right, but if we limit it to 20
acres or 30 acres, and require the open space, require the curvilinear streets, he thinks this is
workable.
Mr. James mentioned that at these meetings the question that is often asked, is there is a consensus
that we want some homes to be more affordable homes in the City of Schertz. The City has that new
median home price around $300,000 dollars. He reminded the sub-committee that all of the things
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the city requires, for new development standards, the regulations, the time it takes to get through the
process adds to the cost of the home price upwards. If after this meeting we want to have some
homes that are affordable, how do we do that, if we are not willing to make some adjustments.
Chairman Whittaker agreed that when you are home shopping and you see developments with lots of
amenities, the cost of those homes are more expensive than other developments with the same size
square footage. By offering these smaller parcels of R6 and R7 is a way to offer more affordable
housing or less expensive homes options because they won’t have to put in a lot of amenities, but
they will have to put in open space that will have more aesthetically pleasing areas. The concern of
the quality of the smaller neighborhoods, was brought up, but Chairman Whittaker believes it won’t
be an issue since they would still have the same building and inspection standards.
Councilmember Scagliola stated the problem he has is that no one is entitled to a home in a given
community where they want to live. He would like to sit with a developer and ask what a
subdivision would look like that had houses in the range of $180,000-$220,000, what would that
subdivision look like. Councilmember Scagliola says he is looking down range, 50-60 years from
now and is concerned about what we might allow to be built now.
Mr. James explained that the city is not going to relax any of its design standards, what we have
gone through is how do we add design criteria that is mandate for everyone going forward. Private
open spaces, bumpouts for the mailboxes, mailbox covers and curvilinear streets. What we are not
talking about is just letting whatever happens, happen. Mr. James just cautioned the sub-committee
to not look at the worst-case scenario and think that is going to happen here.
Commissioner Platt stated that his concern is that we have a process that we have had for a long
time. We have PDD’s, SUP’s and they work great, but the concerns and the complaints are that it
takes too long, it raises costs for the developers. Some developers can’t come in and go through the
process, so now we are going to create another process and procedure with straight zoning to
accomplish something that we can already do, and we have been doing. We just have not been doing
it efficiently enough.
Mr. James added that before 8 or 9 years ago, the city did not have PDD’s. Everyone came in with
straight zoning, and because we only did straight zoning for residential, we had this problem with
somebody coming in with just wanting only R6 or R7’s. We didn’t have those controls that we could
limit those to a certain number of acres, and because of these problems coming up, City Council said
we are not going to allow R6 and R7’s. Staff did not have anyone in and want R2. Now we have a
different problem, because we saw even if you came in R2, staff was still not happy with the
subdivision and when we talked to Planning and Zoning about what we liked, it just wasn’t just
about the lot size. For example, Jonas Woods. It might not be what we want now, but back then, it
was generally liked. Mr. James asked what did we like about it, curvilinear streets, trees, and some
variability of the street layout. Mr. James stated as long as we have been having these types of
meetings, there has not been a consensus among the sub-committee members of any subdivision
they liked as is. Mr. James went on to explain that this is where staff struggles.
Mr. James asked sub-committee to identify subdivisions that they like as is:
Councilmember Scagliola liked Deer Haven, Arroyo Verde, and Forest Ridge because they had the
some of design standards that are being discussed today. Chairman Whittaker identified that many of
the subdivisions mentioned all had mature trees in the neighborhoods, even if the subdivision had a
variety of lots.
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Mr. James summarized that when you do bigger lots, you can overcome many of the issues. He
asked the sub-committee if they are saying they only want R1 zoning which has a min. 9600 sq.ft.
Chairman Whittaker asked what the zoning for Forest Ridge is, the gated community behind HEB.
Forest Ridge is zoned R6. She liked this subdivision because it had the curvilinear streets, cul-de-
sacs, and mature landscape. It is also gated which many folks find attractive. Councilmember
Scagliola stated if Forest Ridge had more green space, it would be a better example of the
subdivision he likes. He continued to say if the R6 subdivisions had green space, they would be on
his list of desirable subdivisions.
Chairman Whittaker asked the sub-committee are we going to allow a process to eliminate this type
of discussion for a small developer with a small parcel of land. Any PDD’s goes through Planning
and Zoning with 7 Commissioners and then to City Council with 7 members, and the developer will
have to attend these meetings to hear everyone’s opinion on the submitted plans. She stated just
offering this R6 or R7 Straight Zoning simplifies the process and putting the faith in the developer.
There would be a checklist for the developer to follow. Chairman Whittaker added that there was a
change made before going from straight zoning to PDD’s because they didn’t like what was
happening. She noted that what the sub-committee decides for right now does not have to be forever
but asked does this make sense for right now. Currently the city is very restrictive, and developers
are pushed into using a PDD every time they want to include smaller lots and it does slow down the
process. Chairman Whittaker stated she believes this would be a beneficial to offer another option.
She continued and said if the sub-committee could not agree on this option, the developers would
have to submit a PDD and sit through a longer process.
Mr. James explained that one of the biggest challenges for the developer is uncertainty. The
developer spends a lot of time and money on engineers, consultants, options on property and if they
have no clue what they are going to get, that is what kills the project. Even if they do the PDD, it is
still problematic and it take a lot of time to get through staff. Typically, some of the issues are that
Planning and Zoning is not ok with what staff is ok with than visa versa. Staff helps the developer
with the process to get their project through Planning and Zoning and then City Council and that is
part of the frustration. In addition, Mr. James explained that the city does not have the staff levels in
part why it takes so long to get through the process.
Commissioner Odom stated in the spirit of consensus he does not have an issue in allowing smaller
development with the straight zoning with the R6 and R7. What has been occurring lately is
developers are coming in with smaller lots, smaller side setbacks and rear setbacks and we have
addressed that with development standards. Commissioner Odom likes the PDD because it gives the
developer flexibility, and the city can hold their feet to the fire with lot sizes in the design. He likes
the Cross Vine subdivision however his concern was the larger houses on smaller lots.
Mr. James reiterated that the developer would say Crossvine our concept doesn’t work unless we’re
able to put that size house that lot. When the developer puts a larger house, the value of that lot
increases and that in part is why Crossvine works. Mr. James explained that this is what the sub-
committee wants to limit by keeping the setbacks in place with no adjustments.
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle believes the sub-committee is close to a consensus with the R6 and R7
straight zoning with the additional design requirements. The percentage of lot sizes in the PDD’s as
a separate discussion.
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Mr. James stated that the sub-committee could vary the plan by mixing R2 and percentages of R6
and R7. The sub-committee discussed Kramer Farms, which is 62 acres and Bindseil Farms is 22
acres and what design standards these two subdivisions would need to implement if they were new
developments for the city today. Both subdivisions would have few lots because of the required park
and open space standard.
Chairman Whittaker asked if Bindseil Farms is a PDD. Mayor Pro-Tem explained they were entitled
by right before 2010. Chairman Whittaker continued and said this is a great example of a subdivision
with R7 zoning that even without the parkland spaces doesn’t make the city feel smaller or cramped.
Both R6 and R7’s have 60 ft wide lots. Councilmember Scagliola mentioned that Kramer Farms is
zoned R7.
Chairman Whittaker stated that a 60 ft wide lot is not a small lot. She stated that there should
absolutely no reason why the sub-committee agree to allow a small community with 60 ft. wide lots.
The $200,000 homes she mentioned before had only a 40 ft. wide lot. Councilmember Scagliola
explained that what they were discussing a few years back was development on the southside of
Schertz where it was mostly RA. He asked do we want the southside of Schertz looking like the
middle and that is the key here.
There are several communities that have GH-Garden Homes, and they are on a 50 ft. wide lot.
Crossvine has a few 50 ft lots within their community. Councilmember Scagliola stated that
Crossvine was an exceptional situation to allow garden homes.
Commissioner Odom stated that the discussion on whether the Planning and Zoning, City Council
and the Sub-Committee are opposed to R6 and R7’s, it is a process in getting to the end goal of what
we are all looking for.
Chairman Whittaker agreed and asked the sub-committee do we allow a process that certain people
who meet certain requirements to streamline their opportunity to develop or do we want as a body
and inspect every development that comes into the city.
Commissioner Braud stated that his responsibility on Planning and Zoning is to not make it easier
for developers to come in and develop a product. It is to have that oversight and follow the
procedures that are there and to make sure they are up to standards. To not make it easier to sit on
this Board and we will give the R6 and R7’s by right, and they can just whatever they want and then
go about their business. What we are going to get is all these pods around the outside of a larger
development and the prices are just going to go up and they are going to inflate the prices of all of
these pods and these use their premium lots and sizes to raise prices. It is going to make a huge
headache for everyone.
Mr. James explained that if you allow these smaller lots, and as much as we build in these standards
and criteria, you still want to see what you are going to get, want to see the layout and make sure it
truly meets the criteria, and make sure what they do responds to the property if it is flat piece of land
vs. one with topography, might treat it differently because of that.
Commissioner Odom explained that’s what we have the ability to do with the PDD’s and SUP’s.
Mr. James agreed that is what they all come back to is that we would like that level of oversight, if
we can come up with standardized criteria and let them know on the front end so we eliminate some
of the debate. We would not allow them to ask for come back with different setbacks, we will not
9-28-2021 Minutes Page - 9 -
give it to them, those are off the table, make sure the developers do all the things on a checklist and
with this we can shorten some of the time with a PDD process because staff will not agree to certain
items.
Commissioner Platt stated that what they see on their side, the developers are trying to get an
exception, trying to get a smaller lot. If they have the criteria and submitted to us to begin with and
meets the criteria, it goes through pretty quickly without any problems. Where the holdup comes in
and the time-consuming part and the financial drain is when they want something specific, i.e., 80%
garden homes, smaller lots that don’t fit in with what we are looking for.
Chairman Whittaker would like on this particular issue is that we have 6 members up here and even
though we will probably not come to a consensus, as a body it is our responsibility to make a
recommendation. She asked for each member to see where they all stand on this one particular issue
and if it is a split decision, there will be no change. If at least 4 members agree in one direction, the
sub-committee needs to move in that direction, even without a unanimous decision.
The question is: Would you like to allow for straight zoning for R6 and R7 lots, 60 ft. wide as an
option for a developer with a maximum size parcel 20 acres or 30 acres, respectively and avoid the
PDD process with certain restrictions in place and the enhanced design standards?
Commissioner Braud: Yes, with both being 30 acres.
Councilmember Whittaker: Yes, would agree to increasing parcel size if all agreed
Councilmember Scagliola: Yes, on R6, No on R7
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle: Yes, on both R6 and R7, with the smaller acreage requirement on R7 due to
the number of additional units
Commissioner Platt: No, opposed to straight zoning, believes we can streamline the PDD process
and have a guideline criteria to get through the process quicker
Commissioner Odom: Yes, R6 and R7 with 30 acres and 20 acres respectively
Chairman Whittaker stated there is a majority of sub-committee members that approving of a R6 and
R7 straight zoning option for developers. We will put it back to the city to tweak some of the details,
and there was lots of discussion on that item and we can move forward on that.
Mayor Pro-Tem Dahle wanted to add that we would be taking on the assumption that we would try
to find a way to limit the total on sectors in the city.
Councilmember Scagliola asked if there was a consensus with these standards in the PDD’s.
Chairman Whittaker stated the sub-committee has not specifically addressed PDD’s.
Mr. James indicated that staff would put together a one-page summary if you want to go with
straight zoning for R6 and R7, here is what you have to do, here are the limitations and once we
settle on that then what are we going to do with PDD’s.
Chairman Whittaker stated at the next meeting they we will have both sets of minutes from
September 21, 2021, and September 28, 2021, to approve and will discuss the Lot Size Distribution
in PDD’s and the Tree Mitigation Program.
Commissioner Odom wanted to add that the sub-committee address the non-PDD larger parcel if the
developer comes in and wants straight zoning. Mr. James agrees.
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Adjournment
As there was no further business, Chair Whittaker adjourned the meeting at 5:22 p.m.
_______________________________
Councilmember Jill Whittaker, Chair
ATTEST:
__________________________________
Sheila Edmondson, Deputy City Secretary