09-28-2021 MinutesMINUTES
REGULAR MEETING
September 28, 2021
A Regular Meeting was held by the City Council and Planning & Zoning Subcommittee of the City of
Schertz, Texas, on September 21, 2021, at 4:00 p.m. at the Hal Baldwin Municipal Complex Council
Chambers Conference Room located at 1400 Schertz Parkway, Schertz, Texas. The following members
present to -wit:
Members Present:
Councilmember Jill Whittaker — Chair
P &Z Commissioner Jimmy Odom (remote)
P &Z Commissioner Richard Braud
Staff Present:
Assistant City Manager Brian James
Councilmember David Scagliola
P &Z Commissioner Earl Platt
Mayor Pro -Tem Michael Dahle
Deputy City Secretary Sheila Edmondson
Director of Planning & Community Development Lisa Wood
Planner Megan Harrison
Call to order
Councilmember Whittaker call ed the meeting to order at 4:00 p.m.
Citizens to be Heard
No one signed up to speak.
Discussion and /or Action Items
1. Approval of the minutes of the meeting of September 21, 2021.
The minutes from the September 21, 2021, were not available and will be on the next agenda for
approval.
2. Review Consensus of September 21, 2021, Meeting.
• Curvilinear Streets
• Usable Centrally Located Open Space
• Mailbox Bumpouts
• Lot Size Distribution
3. Discussion regarding Straight Zoning with Improved Development Standards vs. PDD's.
4. Discussion regarding the Tree Mitigation Program.
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Summarize Consensus
Assistant City Manager Brian James opened up the discussion stating if we can write design
standards on new subdivisions that accomplish what we want, then we have the ability to with
straight zoning with restrictions and limitations and Planned Development Districts (PDD). The
design criteria will be put into a checklist that the Planning and Zoning, City Council, Public and
Developers can have that will let everyone know what is expected for any projected submitted. Mr.
James then continued and summarized on what staff understood what those standards were.
1. Mailbox Bumpouts: The parking of the bumpouts for mailboxes. What staff sent in as a proposal,
was that we are going in with having 2 parking spaces per mailboxes. We contemplated that they
would bumpout the street and provide those as parallel parking spaces and use the current parallel
parking requirements. It would be 8 feet by 22 feet which Staff feel is sufficient. It would also
accommodate a bus if the bus wanted to pull over and use it as a bus stop. There was a question that
if the consensus wanted to require it have a cover over the area for residents picking up their mail. It
will benefit students if the buses use this area for picking up and dropping off students. Staff
recommendation is use 2 spaces that we normally have for spaces: if you wanted to off - street spaces,
then it follows the normal requirements which is 10' x 20' space or if it's on- street it follows the
parallel spaces requirements, additionally do you want it covered. Mr. Brian James asked if the sub-
committee was in agreement with that.
Chairman Whittaker asked if there ware any objections. There were none. She stated that adding the
cover up was a good idea and asked if the sub - committee was in favor of adding this as a
requirement to the communal mailboxes to have a cover. The sub - committee agreed on all three
recommendations.
The next standard Mr. James brought forward to discuss was the Parks and Open Space requirement.
The standard that staff drafted is that 435.6 square feet of usable open space per residential lot is
required for the first 200 lots. This equates to for every 100 lots you need 1 acre of usable open
space. With the first 200 lots that would be 2 acres of usable open space. For every 100 lots after
that, it requires an additional 1/2 acre of usable open space. The general criteria is that the open space
needs to be a minimum 11/2 acre, not encumbered by easements and located to be accessible by the
neighborhood.
Chairman Whittaker stated at the previous meeting the open space presentation was very informative
and she is comfortable with the staff recommendations. She asked if any sub - committee members
had any questions.
Councilmember Scagliola asked these requirements meet up with the Parkland Dedication
requirements.
Mr. James confirmed it is generally consistent with the Parkland dedication requirements; 1 acre for
every 100 dwelling units. He did continue to explain that a development that comes in and doesn't
have a park has to have this private open space. The developers do have the ability to get 1/2 credit for
the park requirement but shouldn't be an issue because the open space private is less than the park
requirement. So must likely, they will provide a private open space and they will still have to pay
parkland dedication fee cash in lieu.
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Councilmember Scagliola commented that we can make more in parkland in lieu of fees instead of
open spaces. He asked with both options, which would a developer prefer? What would the incentive
be for the developer to go with a larger park?
Mr. James explained what we typically see when a developer has enough lots and land to warrant
dedicating that city park that is 5 acres minimum, they view that as an amenity to help sell lots. They
will use that in marketing as the same way they would if an elementary school was nearby. From the
developer's perspective, they are going to have to pay cash or give up land, they will give up land
and benefit from advertising that as a selling point in their community. On the other end, if the
developer does not have a lot of land, they would view giving up land because their lots have more
value, so it varies, but most understand you are going to pay either way.
To summarize, what staff has drafted is that if there is not a city park dedicated, the developer has to
provide a private open space, so every subdivision will have either one of these options once these
standards are passed.
Mr. James asked the subcommittee to comment and clarify if subdivision plans include private open
spaces, do the plans need to go through the Parks Board for approval prior to Planning and Zoning?
Plans with city dedicated parks do or is this an unnecessary step in the development process since it
is private open spaces.
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle asked since we are mandating open space for developments, are we
mandating any type of improvements. Mr. James explained we would not mandate improvements on
these open spaces. As to the comment of having Parks and Rec look at the plans with private open
spaces, he is fine either way, but to simplify the process, have only Planning and Zoning review the
plans.
Chairman Whittaker agreed with only requiring Planning and Zoning to review the plans with
private open spaces. Councilmember Scagliola likes to have all the interested parties look at all the
plans (both Parks and Planning/Zoning), but if both of those committees are in agreement to this, he
would agree to move the developing process along. The rest of the sub - committee were in agreement
as well.
Mr. James reviewed the discussion of R6 and R7 lots wanting to have some variation in lot size from
the September 21, 2021, meeting. From the discussion:
R6 -Would allow Straight Zoning with 30 acres or less.
R7 -Would allow Straight Zoning with 20 acres or less
Chairman Whittaker explained that with these two options, developers with smaller parcels of land
can work within these standards. The developers that come in with larger parcels and are requesting
a PDD, the city was asking those developers for the different size lots to be interspersed with the
development. The feedback we are getting back is that those developers would not be able to do that,
and they would still be coming in with R6 and R7's in block sections. An option for the small parcel
land owners would be if you owned a smaller parcel of land where you don't have the ability to have
a variety of sizes, the straight zoning option for a limited parcel size allows developers to come in
with a particular product that makes sense for that parcel. With these proposed restrictions, they
would still be required to have private open spaces, covered mailboxes, etc. It allows one more
option for the small parcel land owners. If the developers with large parcels of land requesting a
PDD would be able to block sections of their development with R6 and R7's, why not allow the
smaller parcel land owners the ability to do this with straight zoning.
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Chairman Whittaker did have questions about developers who have 100+ acres coming in and
breaking up their parcel in 20 -acre sections and wanting to do straight zoning, how do you buffer
those areas, so they do not do anything similar next to those areas.
Mr. James indicated staff would need to work through these possibilities with developers. Staff does
not want to see developers that would normally come in as a 100+ acre development and break it up
in 20 acre increments to develop blocks of R6 and R7's. Staff would like the developer to limit the
amount of R6 and R7's in large areas. Staff would also let developers know if other small parcels
around their area are already zoned R6 and R7 and limit them, even if they are owned by different
owners. The benefit for small developers' who do not have as much time or money, this would allow
to get them through process fairly quickly.
For bigger tracts of land, the two things I believe we will see now that we have laid out the criteria it
narrows the range of what we are going to allow and not left it open ended, that move through a little
more quickly, but also larger parcels of land, developers are more creative and can spend more time
and money to increase the lot yield.
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle asked about if a developer had 500+ acres plan and staff would limit the R6
and R7's within those zones, so how do you work with the box layout. Mr. James said staff deal with
that and that would be in inherent problem and there is no perfect solution. Staff does not want
developers coming in and straight zone for it and holding that up forever. Staff also knows that the
sub - committee does not want to see a lot of small parcels owned by different owners all requesting
the straight zoning for R6 just because they are small parcels and end up having a large area of the
same zoning but made up of all these small parcels. Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle asked about developers
who have might have approx. 100+ acres and wanting to zone 20 acres of it and then come back later
and piece out another 20 acres of the same zoning. Mr. James explained staff felt there were enough
of the R7 zoning in a large area of land, they would not want another R -7 next to it. Mr. James stated
staff would have to see what property owners are out there and kind of see where they might these
issues. Again, he stated there is no perfect solution.
Councilmember Scagliola stated he is not in favor of straight zoning for R7's. He does like the larger
plats that are out there can subdivide. It is an integrity issue of the entire community and would like
to see a lot of homes being built by one developer that take on a certain characteristic. With the
design standards, you would not have a bunch of mix - matched homes. That would be the incentive
to develop these large areas that look like this, for example with Cross Vine, where we allowed them
to have certain things because they consolidated all that acreage and took on a certain flavor.
Mr. James agreed that there are some advantages to having a large parcel being developed as one
project, however there are a lot of smaller parcels out there and cannot come in as a bigger piece. For
that reason, we will need to make some provision for that. The question is do you want to force those
smaller pieces to go bigger as R2 or are you willing to allow those who come in as smaller
subdivisions.
Councilmember Scagliola asked how do we get garden homes into the city? He would like to see
more garden homes, but he is not in favor of straight zoning for garden homes or R7's. He would
like to see a variety out there. Mr. James explained that if we do want garden homes in the city, we
need to make it easier for the developers to do with an option of straight zoning for this. This is the
flip of this, is if we are saying we want garden homes, but we are going to take 6 -9 months to get
approved, this is not going to attract developers to do this. Councilmember Scagliola stated that
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would be the benefit of a PDD to get some garden homes in but does not like straight zoning for it.
Chairman Whittaker stated that what they discussed last week was, Riata, with the smaller lot sizes,
could not be built today because it is a large of a land space to accommodate either category of the
limits of R6 -30 acres or less or R7 -20 acres or less. She explained that Mr. James is trying to narrow
down what the concern is and see if these suggestions we are discussing today address those
concerns. If the concern is that we are going to have wall to wall R6 and R7's, then what we put in
place with these limits make sure that issue has been eliminated with the limits of R6 -30 acres and
R7 -20 categories. Developers will not be able to put one next door and next door without a buffer.
For the committee members that are concerned about straight zoning, we need to pinpoint exactly
the concern, because those concerns will be there with PDD's as well. This particular solution
solves that problem in limiting the land mass and overall feeling of wall to wall, cookie -cutter type
houses that are crammed in there. So, we addressed all of those issues and Chairman Whittaker
stated we limited the land mass for R6 and R7's. She asked if the sub - committee had other concerns.
Commissioner Platt has concerns that these solutions will cause a patchwork of smaller
neighborhoods of R6 and R7's and then the neighbors next to these parcels would want to know why
they cannot be zoned R6 and R7's. He also has concerns that with straight zoning, the landscape will
be a patchwork R6 and R7's without oversight like they have with a PDD. Mr. Platt would like to
keep the straight zoning for only R2's and the rest with PDD's for the developer to have flexibility.
Chairman Whittaker stated the other concerns she is hearing is that larger parcels could be chopped
into smaller lots to get straight zoning and how do we address that.
Commissioner Richard Braud mentioned that the Haley Subdivisions came in with four different
developments. It has happened before, and Haley was a large parcel of land that could have been
brought in a one development but wasn't.
Mr. James replied to Mayor Pro -Tern's question, is how tricky we want to get with this sort of
solution? One option is to define larger areas in the city by looking at the Thorough -Fare Plan and
look at the natural topography and see what the acreage is and based on that acreage we would want
to limit R6 and R7's. The worst option would be `first come, first served', whoever comes in first
and requests these R6 and R7's zoning gets it and everyone else would have to come in and do
bigger lots or a PDD. Hopefully we can talk to the city attorney and see if we can have some kind of
SUP, so we don't have developers come in and zone R6 or R7 and if you don't file the plat within a
certain time frame, the zoning expires. We can see if something like that would be possible.
Mr. James stated even with the details worked out on these solutions, he feels some on the sub-
committee were still not comfortable with straight zoning on these small lots. Commissioner Odom
and Councilmember Scagliola concurred.
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle asked how many homes were in Kramer Farms. There are 307 homes on 62
acres. Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle continued to explain that if this development came in today, looking at
the design standards we would require some open space, which currently Kramer Farms does not
have. Mayor Pro-Tem. Dahle stated he struggles with entitling that by right, but if we limit it to 20
acres or 30 acres, and require the open space, require the curvilinear streets, he thinks this is
workable.
Mr. James mentioned that at these meetings the question that is often asked, is there is a consensus
that we want some homes to be more affordable homes in the City of Schertz. The City has that new
median home price around $300,000 dollars. He reminded the sub - committee that all of the things
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the city requires, for new development standards, the regulations, the time it takes to get through the
process adds to the cost of the home price upwards. If after this meeting we want to have some
homes that are affordable, how do we do that, if we are not willing to make some adjustments.
Chairman Whittaker agreed that when you are home shopping and you see developments with lots of
amenities, the cost of those homes are more expensive than other developments with the same size
square footage. By offering these smaller parcels of R6 and R7 is a way to offer more affordable
housing or less expensive homes options because they won't have to put in a lot of amenities, but
they will have to put in open space that will have more aesthetically pleasing areas. The concern of
the quality of the smaller neighborhoods, was brought up, but Chairman Whittaker believes it won't
be an issue since they would still have the same building and inspection standards.
Councilmember Scagliola stated the problem he has is that no one is entitled to a home in a given
community where they want to live. He would like to sit with a developer and ask what a
subdivision would look like that had houses in the range of $180,000 4220,000, what would that
subdivision look like. Councilmember Scagliola says he is looking down range, 50 -60 years from
now and is concerned about what we might allow to be built now.
Mr. James explained that the city is not going to relax any of its design standards, what we have
gone through is how do we add design criteria that is mandate for everyone going forward. Private
open spaces, bumpouts for the mailboxes, mailbox covers and curvilinear streets. What we are not
talking about is just letting whatever happens, happen. Mr. James just cautioned the sub - committee
to not look at the worst -case scenario and think that is going to happen here.
Commissioner Platt stated that his concern is that we have a process that we have had for a long
time. We have PDD's, SUP's and they work great, but the concerns and the complaints are that it
takes too long, it raises costs for the developers. Some developers can't come in and go through the
process, so now we are going to create another process and procedure with straight zoning to
accomplish something that we can already do, and we have been doing. We just have not been doing
it efficiently enough.
Mr. James added that before 8 or 9 years ago, the city did not have PDD's. Everyone came in with
straight zoning, and because we only did straight zoning for residential, we had this problem with
somebody coming in with just wanting only R6 or R7's. We didn't have those controls that we could
limit those to a certain number of acres, and because of these problems coming up, City Council said
we are not going to allow R6 and R7's. Staff did not have anyone in and want R2. Now we have a
different problem, because we saw even if you came in R2, staff was still not happy with the
subdivision and when we talked to Planning and Zoning about what we liked, it just wasn't just
about the lot size. For example, Jonas Woods. It might not be what we want now, but back then, it
was generally liked. Mr. James asked what did we like about it, curvilinear streets, trees, and some
variability of the street layout. Mr. James stated as long as we have been having these types of
meetings, there has not been a consensus among the sub - committee members of any subdivision
they liked as is. Mr. James went on to explain that this is where staff struggles.
Mr. James asked sub - committee to identify subdivisions that they like as is:
Councilmember Scagliola liked Deer Haven, Arroyo Verde, and Forest Ridge because they had the
some of design standards that are being discussed today. Chairman Whittaker identified that many of
the subdivisions mentioned all had mature trees in the neighborhoods, even if the subdivision had a
variety of lots.
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Mr. James summarized that when you do bigger lots, you can overcome many of the issues. He
asked the sub - committee if they are saying they only want RI zoning which has a min. 9600 sq.ft.
Chairman Whittaker asked what the zoning for Forest Ridge is, the gated community behind HEB.
Forest Ridge is zoned R6. She liked this subdivision because it had the curvilinear streets, cul -de-
sacs, and mature landscape. It is also gated which many folks find attractive. Councilmember
Scagliola stated if Forest Ridge had more green space, it would be a better example of the
subdivision he likes. He continued to say if the R6 subdivisions had green space, they would be on
his list of desirable subdivisions.
Chairman Whittaker asked the sub - committee are we going to allow a process to eliminate this type
of discussion for a small developer with a small parcel of land. Any PDD's goes through Planning
and Zoning with 7 Commissioners and then to City Council with 7 members, and the developer will
have to attend these meetings to hear everyone's opinion on the submitted plans. She stated just
offering this R6 or R7 Straight Zoning simplifies the process and putting the faith in the developer.
There would be a checklist for the developer to follow. Chairman Whittaker added that there was a
change made before going from straight zoning to PDD's because they didn't like what was
happening. She noted that what the sub - committee decides for right now does not have to be forever
but asked does this make sense for right now. Currently the city is very restrictive, and developers
are pushed into using a PDD every time they want to include smaller lots and it does slow down the
process. Chairman Whittaker stated she believes this would be a beneficial to offer another option.
She continued and said if the sub - committee could not agree on this option, the developers would
have to submit a PDD and sit through a longer process.
Mr. James explained that one of the biggest challenges for the developer is uncertainty. The
developer spends a lot of time and money on engineers, consultants, options on property and if they
have no clue what they are going to get, that is what kills the project. Even if they do the PDD, it is
still problematic and it take a lot of time to get through staff. Typically, some of the issues are that
Planning and Zoning is not ok with what staff is ok with than visa versa. Staff helps the developer
with the process to get their project through Planning and Zoning and then City Council and that is
part of the frustration. In addition, Mr. James explained that the city does not have the staff levels in
part why it takes so long to get through the process.
Commissioner Odom stated in the spirit of consensus he does not have an issue in allowing smaller
development with the straight zoning with the R6 and R7. What has been occurring lately is
developers are coming in with smaller lots, smaller side setbacks and rear setbacks and we have
addressed that with development standards. Commissioner Odom likes the PDD because it gives the
developer flexibility, and the city can hold their feet to the fire with lot sizes in the design. He likes
the Cross Vine subdivision however his concern was the larger houses on smaller lots.
Mr. James reiterated that the developer would say Crossvine our concept doesn't work unless we're
able to put that size house that lot. When the developer puts a larger house, the value of that lot
increases and that in part is why Crossvine works. Mr. James explained that this is what the sub-
committee wants to limit by keeping the setbacks in place with no adjustments.
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle believes the sub - committee is close to a consensus with the R6 and R7
straight zoning with the additional design requirements. The percentage of lot sizes in the PDD's as
a separate discussion.
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Mr. James stated that the sub - committee could vary the plan by mixing R2 and percentages of R6
and R7. The sub - committee discussed Kramer Farms, which is 62 acres and Bindseil Farms is 22
acres and what design standards these two subdivisions would need to implement if they were new
developments for the city today. Both subdivisions would have few lots because of the required park
and open space standard.
Chairman Whittaker asked if Bindseil Farms is a PDD. Mayor Pro -Tem explained they were entitled
by right before 2010. Chairman Whittaker continued and said this is a great example of a subdivision
with R7 zoning that even without the parkland spaces doesn't make the city feel smaller or cramped.
Both R6 and R7's have 60 ft wide lots. Councilmember Scagliola mentioned that Kramer Farms is
zoned R7.
Chairman Whittaker stated that a 60 ft wide lot is not a small lot. She stated that there should
absolutely no reason why the sub - committee agree to allow a small community with 60 ft. wide lots.
The $200,000 homes she mentioned before had only a 40 ft. wide lot. Councilmember Scagliola
explained that what they were discussing a few years back was development on the southside of
Schertz where it was mostly RA. He asked do we want the southside of Schertz looking like the
middle and that is the key here.
There are several communities that have GH- Garden Homes, and they are on a 50 ft. wide lot.
Crossvine has a few 50 ft lots within their community. Councilmember Scagliola stated that
Crossvine was an exceptional situation to allow garden homes.
Commissioner Odom stated that the discussion on whether the Planning and Zoning, City Council
and the Sub - Committee are opposed to R6 and R7's, it is a process in getting to the end goal of what
we are all looking for.
Chairman Whittaker agreed and asked the sub - committee do we allow a process that certain people
who meet certain requirements to streamline their opportunity to develop or do we want as a body
and inspect every development that comes into the city.
Commissioner Braud stated that his responsibility on Planning and Zoning is to not make it easier
for developers to come in and develop a product. It is to have that oversight and follow the
procedures that are there and to make sure they are up to standards. To not make it easier to sit on
this Board and we will give the R6 and R7's by right, and they can just whatever they want and then
go about their business. What we are going to get is all these pods around the outside of a larger
development and the prices are just going to go up and they are going to inflate the prices of all of
these pods and these use their premium lots and sizes to raise prices. It is going to make a huge
headache for everyone.
Mr. James explained that if you allow these smaller lots, and as much as we build in these standards
and criteria, you still want to see what you are going to get, want to see the layout and make sure it
truly meets the criteria, and make sure what they do responds to the property if it is flat piece of land
vs. one with topography, might treat it differently because of that.
Commissioner Odom explained that's what we have the ability to do with the PDD's and SUP's.
Mr. James agreed that is what they all come back to is that we would like that level of oversight, if
we can come up with standardized criteria and let them know on the front end so we eliminate some
of the debate. We would not allow them to ask for come back with different setbacks, we will not
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give it to them, those are off the table, make sure the developers do all the things on a checklist and
with this we can shorten some of the time with a PDD process because staff will not agree to certain
items.
Commissioner Platt stated that what they see on their side, the developers are trying to get an
exception, trying to get a smaller lot. If they have the criteria and submitted to us to begin with and
meets the criteria, it goes through pretty quickly without any problems. Where the holdup comes in
and the time - consuming part and the financial drain is when they want something specific, i.e., 80%
garden homes, smaller lots that don't fit in with what we are looking for.
Chairman Whittaker would like on this particular issue is that we have 6 members up here and even
though we will probably not come to a consensus, as a body it is our responsibility to make a
recommendation. She asked for each member to see where they all stand on this one particular issue
and if it is a split decision, there will be no change. If at least 4 members agree in one direction, the
sub - committee needs to move in that direction, even without a unanimous decision.
The question is: Would you like to allow for straight zoning for R6 and R7 lots, 60 ft. wide as an
option for a developer with a maximum size parcel 20 acres or 30 acres, respectively and avoid the
PDD process with certain restrictions in place and the enhanced design standards?
Commissioner Braud: Yes, with both being 30 acres.
Councilmember Whittaker: Yes, would agree to increasing parcel size if all agreed
Councilmember Scagliola: Yes, on R6, No on R7
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle: Yes, on both R6 and R7, with the smaller acreage requirement on R7 due to
the number of additional units
Commissioner Platt: No, opposed to straight zoning, believes we can streamline the PDD process
and have a guideline criteria to get through the process quicker
Commissioner Odom: Yes, R6 and R7 with 30 acres and 20 acres respectively
Chairman Whittaker stated there is a majority of sub - committee members that approving of a R6 and
R7 straight zoning option for developers. We will put it back to the city to tweak some of the details,
and there was lots of discussion on that item and we can move forward on that.
Mayor Pro -Tem Dahle wanted to add that we would be taking on the assumption that we would try
to. find a way to limit the total on sectors in the city.
Councilmember Scagliola asked if there was a consensus with these standards in the PDD's.
Chairman Whittaker stated the sub - committee has not specifically addressed PDD's.
Mr. James indicated that staff would put together a one -page summary if you want to go with
straight zoning for R6 and R7, here is what you have to do, here are the limitations and once we
settle on that then what are we going to do with PDD's.
Chairman Whittaker stated at the next meeting they we will have both sets of minutes from
September 21, 2021, and September 28, 2021, to approve and will discuss the Lot Size Distribution
in PDD's and the Tree Mitigation Program.
Commissioner Odom wanted to add that the sub - committee address the non -PDD larger parcel if the
developer comes in and wants straight zoning. Mr. James agrees.
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Adjournment
As there was no further business, Chair Whittaker adjourned the meeting at 5:22 p.m.
Co cilmember Jill Whittaker, Chair
ATTEST
Sheila Edmondson Deputy City Secretary
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