06-11-1996
.
.
.
e
e
PLANNING AND ZONING MINUTES
The Schertz Planning and Zoning Commission convened in regular
session on Tuesday, June 11, 1996 at 7:00 p.m. in the Municipal
Complex Conference Room, 1400 Schertz Parkway, Schertz, Texas.
Those present were as follows:
PLANNING & ZONING COMMISSION
CITY STAFF
PIA JARMAN, CHAIRWOMAN
DAVID RICHMOND, VICE-CHAIRMAN
MERWIN WILLMAN, SECRETARY
TONY MORENO
KEITH VAN DINE
ERNIE EVANS
GARY WALLACE
KEN GREENWALD, COUNCILMAN
STEVE SIMONSON,
ASST. CITY MANAGER
DENISE GRANGER,
PLANNING SECRETARY
MEMBERS ABSENT
OTHERS PRESENT
Scott Holland,
3205 Dusty Crossing
Cliff Johnson,
6840 FM 1518
Bruce Ireland,
2826 Bent Tree
# 1 CALL TO ORDER
Chairwoman Pia Jarman called the June 11, 1996 regular meeting
to order at 7:00 p.m.
#2 APPROVAL OF MINUTES:
1. Special Session, Public Hearing, and Regular Session,
May 14, 1996.
2. Regular Session May 23, 1996.
Denise Granger stated there is a typographical error on page 15 of
the May 14, 1996 minutes fourth paragraph the word inspections
should be inspectors.
Denise Granger stated on the agenda item #6 should be 2826 Bent
Tree.
David Richmond stated on page 5 of the May 14, 1996 minutes there
is a typographical error on the sixth paragraph the name Rubstein
should be Rubenstein.
Merwin Willman moved to approve the May 14, 1996 and May 28, 1996
.
.
.
e
e
Minutes as corrected. Ernie Evans seconded the motion which
carried with a unanimous vote.
13 STATUS OF FINAL PLATS:
Chairwoman Pia Jarman stated at this time no plats have been
signed.
14 CITIZENS' INPUT OTHER THAN AGENDA ITEMS:
There were none.
#5 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Request from Marvin
Holland 3205 Dusty Crossing Special Exception
to the Zoning Ordinance for a Rear Yard
Setback. (BOA #73-96)
Steve Simonson stated this is a request for a four (4) foot
variance to the twenty (20) foot building setback to allow sixteen
(16) feet rear yard building setback to put a cover on the patio.
This request does not involve any easements.
Ernie Evans asked if there are no rear yard utilities?
Simonson agreed to there being no rear yard utilities.
Steve
Pia Jarman mentioned this request would be a Board of Adjustment
action.
Pia Jarman asked if the patio was already in place. Steve Simonson
stated the cement slab is in place. They are wanting to put a
cover over the existing slab. This is now going to be attached to
the house so there has to be a variance.
Gary Wallace moved to forward to the BOA the request submitted by
Marvin Holland, 3205 Dusty Crossing for a Special Exception to the
Zoning Ordinance for a rear yard setback with the Commission's
approval. Tony Moreno seconded the motion which carried with a
unanimous vote.
#6 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Request from Bruce
Ireland, 2826 Bent Tree Drive, Special
Exception to the Zoning Ordinance for a Rear
Yard Setback. (BOA #74-96)
Steve Simonson stated this is a request for a pool to be placed
closer to the house than the ten (10) foot building setback that is
allowed for accessory buildings. The actual distance from the
closest point of the house would be 3'6".
Ernie Evans asked what the difference is between the 3'6" and
ten (10) foot shown on the map. Is this just the 3'6" by
house. Gary Wallace stated it is the 3'6" by the house only.
the
the
Steve Simonson stated at the edge of the house as an accessory
-2-
e
e
. building it has to be ten (10) feet away.
Gary Wallace moved to forward to BOA with the Commission's approval
the request submitted by Bruce Ireland, 2826 Bent Tree Drive for
the Special Exception to the Zoning Ordinance for a rear yard
setback. Tony Moreno seconded the motion which carried with a
unanimous vote.
17 CONSIDER AND TAKE APPROPRIATE ACTION: Request from Cliff
Johnson, to rezone 30 Acres from RA
(Residential/Agriculture) to MH (Mobile Home
Subdivision). (ZC #134-96)
Steve Simonson stated one of the first things that was discussed in
this situation was the availability of water. This is at the end
of a six (6) inch water main at FM 1518. Mr. Johnson and his
associates have discussed this matter with John Bierschwale,
Director of Public Works. At this time the Public Works Director
has advised for what Mr. Johnson is proposing here, the water
system could carry it, but Mr. Johnson would still have to build a
proper size water line in there because we are projected to have
the big mains down in that area within the next three (3) to four
(4) years.
.
Steve Simonson stated with the advancing twelve (12) inch mains
that are down there with the six (6) inch lines they are better
loaded with the tanks that are on Ware Seguin. The lines are not
as stressed. The proposal by Mr. Johnson, who does own all of the
property, which is 30 acres approximately 362'+ wide and 12,000'
long, involves three (3) pieces of very narrow property.
Ernie Evans asked what is the proposal for the street access? Will
this be a center street built right onto the center of the property
with lots being on either side?
Cliff Johnson stated "yes" the lots will be on either side with the
street being asphalt with a rollover curb, with accessibility
surrounding the entire acreage. In case there was a fire, all the
appropriate entities will have accessibility.
Merwin Willman stated there are requirements set up in the mobile
home ordinance and has Mr. Johnson been so advised.
Steve Simonson stated that "yes" Mr. Johnson has been so advised
of the ordinance. If this is to go forward the fire department
will have to be consulted on their requirements, the water lines,
fire hydrants and the accessibility of at least a second way out of
the subdivision. What Mr. Johnson is proposing would be in
violation of our ordinance as far as the long deep cul-de-sac is
concerned. However, he would have parallel roads on the outside of
the property for accessibility in and out in case of an emergency.
.
Gary Wallace asked what is at the west end of the property? Steve
Simonson stated this is just some deep property which is all farm
-3-
e
e
.
land. There are some mobile homes in the area. Surrounding the
property there is very little around it.
Ernie Evans asked if the subdivision lot sizes would be 55 X 120?
Steve Simonson stated they would be lots of about 1/2 acre. These
are being sold as individual lots with a septic system. Because of
the state requirements the lots have to be sold by 1/2 acre.
Merwin Willman stated on the petition from it states in item #1
e, certain items that need to accompany the request; legal
description of land, of which there is no copy in our packet. The
zoning classification of all abutting land, is not available. Also
the names and addresses of landowners of all land within the area
to be changed by the proposed amendment, and abutting landowners
within 200' is not attached. All of these items should accompany
this petition, unless it was left out of his (Mr. Willman's)
packet. The other Commissioners advised they also did not receive
this information.
Tony Moreno asked if an individual or developer goes through the
same process. Steve Simonson stated that anyone wanting to rezone
has a copy of the petition to fill out.
Pia Jarman asked what the property along IH 10 is zoned. Steve
. Simonson stated this is commercial property.
Keith Van Dine asked what the requirements are for mobile home
space.
Merwin Willman stated they have to be 1/2 acre lots because they
will be on a septic system and this is a mobile home subdivision
not a park and there is a difference. In a park the lots are
rented and a subdivision the individuals own the lots.
Gary Wallace stated he is at a loss how things that Merwin pointed
out affect the issue as we address it. The landowners and things
of this nature will have to be notified but does this affect the
issue as we are addressing it.
Steve Simonson stated if you have an area that you cannot describe
the ordinance calls for it. In this case this is a known area
these are off the tax maps. The names of the landowners are
available, the area surrounding this property is all the same RA
(Residential/ Agriculture). The only thing missing is the names.
This is the tax map that you are reviewing. The metes and bounds
will come when it goes before a public hearing and someone would
have to provide this information.
.
Gary Wallace reiterated what you are saying, Steve, the items that
are missing are not critical at present.
Steve
case
Simonson stated normally these items are available. In this
there is the tax map which can pin point the property and it
-4-
.
.
.
e
e
is all zoned exactly the same surrounding the property. Mr.
Johnson is advised on what information will need to be available
for the public hearings as this request tonight is only for a
recommendation for public hearings.
Pia Jarman stated in going to City Council will the metes and
bounds have to be available.
Steve Simonson stated "yes" with either the Planning and Zoning
public hearing or the City Council public hearing all the
information will have to be available.
Gary Wallace moved to forward to City Council with recommendation
for approval to schedule public hearings for the request submitted
by Cliff Johnson to rezone 30 acres from RA
(Residential/Agriculture) to MH (Mobile Home Subdivision). Keith
Van Dine seconded the motion which carried as follows:
AYES: Pia Jarman, David Richmond, Ernie Evans, Gary Wallace, Keith
Van Dine, Tony Moreno.
NAYS: Merwin Willman.
Merwin Willman stated the reason he is against forwarding the
request for rezoning is, it does not comply with our ordinance.
The ordinance requires certain documents to be submitted with the
petition for request.
#8 CONSIDER AND DISCUSS: Gated Community
Pia Jarman stated Merwin is always very thorough. He has once
again provided the Commission with a very informative document and
on behalf of the Commission she thanked him very much.
Pia Jarman commented when insuring the lot size will be compatible
with existing subdivisions, it is recommended that all secured
gated communities be zoned R-6. The two gated communities that are
already established i.e. Roy Richards, Harbroth are on lots much
bigger than R-6.
Merwin Willman stated they will be grand fathered when this goes
into effect. It could be greater than R-6 or a minimum R-6.
Gary Wallace asked if someone wanted to do another Roy Richard type
subdivision would they have to come in for a variance.
Pia Jarman stated we are not talking about the existing small gated
communities we are addressing the future development of gated
communities.
Steve Simonson stated with this proposal you are saying anything
under 150 acres will not be allowed.
Pia Jarman stated this is what we are talking about 150, 100,
whatever the Commission feels is appropriate.
-5-
.
.
.
e
e
Tony Moreno stated once we say we don't want anything less than 100
to 150 acres we are precluding smaller developers. The only thing
that could come in would be the larger developers.
Merwin Willman stated we are only addressing the small gated
community.
Pia Jarman stated the developer could still do a small subdivision
but not gated.
David Richmond commented that in the last two meetings we have had
requests for a small gated community and this is what this is
about.
Ernie Evans mentioned we are trying to stop developers
stuffing x number of lots inside an area because it started
much smaller than what we wound up with and every meeting they
to get smaller and smaller.
from
out
seem
Tony Moreno stated this is why they were asking for a variance and
this is why we have the UDC for the size. The Commission does not
have to automatically approve the gated communities for a variance.
Pia Jarman stated we are not just discussing the variance we are
talking about the idea of having a limit on the size in acres that
will be allowed. If you are to look at the map of the City, do we
want with looking at the size of the City, a whole lot of small
walled communities within the bigger community? In a place like
San Antonio, or a big, big town those things may not matter as
much. Here the whole ambiance is that it is open and that it has
lots of green areas and that it has a small town flavor. This is
why people find Schertz so attractive. When it is crammed full
with small walled communites we will change. Obviously, it won't
be the small town, with a small town atmosphere. As a philosophic
matter if you agree or disagree. This is what this is all about.
Merwin Willman stated that the 150 acres was a number to work with
if the Commission wants smaller or larger we can decide.
Gary Wallace commented that the small gated communities doesn't
look necessarily bad.
Pia Jarman stated it isn't necessarily bad but what we are saying
it will change the looks and the feeling that we have as a small
town. This is a possibility as we have had three (3) requests so
far for gated communities. This is a selling point not just a
security idea.
Merwin Willman stated even though developers are saying this is a
selling point for security reasons but looking at our City and how
we are developing we seem to be developing fairly well without the
gated communities.
-6-
e
e
.
Keith Van Dine mentioned the gentleman that was in here (Mr.
Lancaster) wanting to put in a gated community was willing to give
up the gate for other concessions so to speak. The gate will not
hold up development if the developer wants to build.
Merwin Willman commented a gated community is a special kind of
development it is a little development by itself with a fence
around it. This would be like a mobile home subdivision which also
has a restriction on the number of acres. This is the same thing a
special type of district that we do not want allover the place.
We want to control them and have them in certain areas if
necessary.
Ernie Evans stated the gated community needs to be seriously looked
at. Because the greater the numbers if we allow smaller
developments, then obviously you tend to potentially have a larger
number of them with the larger number of them because they are
smaller also perhaps extend the risk to the City. This is one of
the things we debated on with Steve going to the lawyer about to
put in the protection to the UDC for the streets for us to
maintain. They have been private property that we inherited. In
the current ordinances there is not sufficient documentation to
cover the kinds of things that we have discussed in the last two
(2) years about the gated communities coming in and what could
happen to them. In looking at what Merwin has written and what is
in the current UDC in terms Merwin is revising the existing
document.
.
Steve Simonson stated the 150 acres seems to be too much. If you
were to allow 4 units per acre as a ball park figure 4 X 50 is 200.
In going to maybe 70 or 75 acres they still have latitude in
drainage, greenbelt, other things and still have a viability of 150
to 200 homes.
Steve Simonson mentioned he has received calls from the developer
and Prestige Homes on wanting to buy more land for Berry Creek to
add to the existing property.
Keith Van Dine commented even if we were to use the 75 acres for a
gated community that doesn't say that someone can't put a
development on 15 acres and put up a wall. The idea of the gated
community with a wall is they can still have a wall without a gate.
Keith stated he does not care for the walls, it feels like you are
going through a tunnel.
Merwin Willman commented what is important is what is best for the
City as far as health and welfare of its citizens are concerned.
Tony Moreno commented on the gated community, just on the way we
are approaching, it is as if a gated community is really not
secure. Instead of using secured why not use limited access.
.
Pia Jarman advised because all through the context it is referred
to as secured. Merwin Willman stated it is a common word usage.
-7-
e
e
. Steve Simonson stated anywhere from 70 to 80 acres in this range.
This allows you the amount of property and gives the developers who
want to bring something in that is not so huge that it can't be
handled.
After the discussion the Commission was in agreement to amend the
ordinance to a minimum of 75 acres, rezoned minimum R-6, 2
exit/entrances, and surrounded by a masonry or wrought iron fence.
This will need to go to City Council on an emergency situation to
be handled immediately and to set up a moratorium of 60 - 90 days
on requests for gated communities.
#9 GENERAL DISCUSSION:
Tony Moreno:
Tony Moreno stated on the gated community his feeling is that we
are getting into micro-managing which means when the Commission
gets in too deep in telling the developers what they can do. There
seems like there is no alternative. In other states there have
been law suits on this.
Merwin Willman commented he felt this comes under safety, health
and welfare of the community.
. Keith Van Dine stated if someone were to come in with a good plan
and location the 75 acres is a guideline to follow. We can look at
any request.
Councilman Ken Greenwald stated if it came to a law suit it could
be defended based on the monetary consideration that have been
looked at. The decision was based on the number of homes to
support a Homeowners Association.
Keith Van Dine:
Keith Van Dine stated he had no comments.
Gary Wallace:
Gary Wallace stated he had no comments.
Ernie Evans:
Ernie Evans thanked Steve Simonson for the tour. It was very good
and he really enjoyed it. It was nice to see other folks and to
get with them and hear their comments and opinions.
Merwin Willman:
.
Merwin
for the
If the
Willman stated being the Planning
BOA, due to health reasons, he is
Commission could please appoint
-8-
and Zoning representative
going to have to resign.
another Commissioner to
e
e
. attend the meetings. They meet on Monday nights.
Pia Jarman asked who has Monday nights free when the BOA has to
meet. Ernie Evans volunteered to be the representative for the
Planning and Zoning Commission.
Merwin Willman stated the tapes for the May 14th
meeting need to be kept until the issue with Mr.
resolved.
and May 28th
Lancaster is
Merwin Willman stated on the request for the rezoning that was on
the agenda this evening. The reason he brought up the issue on
documents not presented is, the documents are supposed to come with
the petition. If we aren't going to stick to the ordinance and
hold to it then we need to change the ordinance. If there is no
need for such documents then why should we require them. They
should be removed from the check list so as not to interfere with
what is required.
.
Steve Simonson stated the documents that Mr. Willman is referring
to he would like to leave in there as they are needed for a public
hearing and they are legal documents. There are some cases for
your initial evaluation the documents are not necessary, as long as
you know where the property is and is this something you would like
to go for a public hearing. The public hearing is where the
decisions are made. This was a case where the computers were down
and Mr. Johnson had been in contact for a long time and we took a
chance to bring it before the Commission in this condition.
Gary Wallace stated he is in agreement with Merwin Willman, even
though during the discussion he asked if the documents were really
needed he thinks this is a staff function and this should not come
before the Commission until it is done by the staff. If Steve is
going to send things like this forward to the Commission then there
needs to be a note to the effect. The staff work should not be
done at the meetings.
Pia Jarman interpreted what Gary Wallace meant is that it should so
state that this will all be in order for the public hearing but for
purposes of what the Commission was doing tonight this has been
waived. Gary agreed, but also stated he felt he was crossing
purposes with Merwin on that particular issue and we should not
have to do this with people (the public) present.
Tony Moreno agreed this is one thing that also crossed his
At the time that he also asked about the documents, it made
for Steve for whatever reason and it could get passed.
mind.
sense
.
Merwin Willman stated one of the reasons for a lot of the
information is for new members that may not know, this needs to be
furnished. This was also put in to see if the petitioner is really
serious to have this rezoned, the person will go and do the work
that is required. Also with all the new subdivisions if the name
of the subdivision could be put on the request it would be helpful.
-9-
.
.
.
e
e
Pia Jarman advised Steve Simonson the gist of what
Commissioners feel is rather than have a confrontation with
individuals who come in, if all the staff work is done ahead
time things would go a lot smoother. This is what Pia thinks
is hearing, to which the Commissioners agreed. It won't look
the Commission being the bad guys sitting there in judgement.
the
the
of
she
like
David Richmond:
David Richmond mentioned the sign at Woody's is still in place.
Steve Simonson stated that he has sent a letter with a copy passed
out this evening for the Commission. The first letter that was
sent was not answered. According to the ordinance it says the sign
has to be damaged or abandoned before anything can be done. The
sign at this time is neither. The owners own the property and the
sign they have been asked to conform and bring the sign into
conformance.
David Richmond stated there is some concern among the residents of
Royal Oaks, and also there will be some concern among the residents
of Greenshire once they find out what is going on. Apparently the
Greenshire developer and the school board have reached an agreement
on the sale of 10 acres of property in the back of Greenshire
abutting Green Valley Loop, Royal Oaks and Woodland Oaks Drive.
This is to position the second middle school. There at this time
has been some clearing of land such as being freshly mowed. There
are stakes in the area which indicates there has been some
surveying being done. Access to this area has been derived by some
contractors by Green Valley Loop which is not a very heavily
traveled and is not designed to be a heavily traveled road. As
people witnessed this going there was an immediate uproar as to
what is going on and what is going in there. As we were trying to
get word back today to some of the people that he thought would be
here tonight just to ask questions, the obvious people to ask, of
course, is the school board, not Planning and Zoning.
We in P & Z at this time haven't even received anything from a
developer, school board whatever to try and do anything there. We
have had previous discussion as Steve has kept us up to date. The
only problem is the road situation. The need for Cibolo to put a
boulevard type road in from Deer Creek and on through. This is
surfacing and as Steve has mentioned a Specific Use Permit is
forthcoming. As a personal opinion this will be a very interesting
use for the property. At the beginning he felt this was not a good
idea but on the other hand as a nearby resident one of the major
concerns he thinks that we had when we were looking at the whole
Greenshire potential development he is sure the developer had is
that the whole big field back there which used to be farm land and
was totally skinned off with no trees at all. This of course
doesn't really lend itself to marketing nice homes. With only
being able to go in there with smaller spec homes putting a school
in this area will probably turn out to be a very good use for the
land. This is unfortunate for the Royal Oaks residents as there
could be a fence line adjacent to the road or right in front of the
-10-
e
e
.
school.
Ernie Evans asked Steve if they had settled that issue of the road.
Steve Simonson stated at this time he does not know but when they
come in they will have to address this issue.
Steve Simonson stated the way a Special Use Permit
Commission will receive the request to look
recommendation to City Council but City Council is
the single public hearing on the request. With a
only use for that property.
is
at
the
SUP
handled, the
to make a
one that has
this is the
Merwin Willman mentioned that the Council can
restrictions to a SUP which makes it nice.
add
extra
Steve Simonson stated the property does not touch Royal Oaks or
Green Valley Loop. It has a 60' buffer which is the future 60' ROW
for the road. The question is are they going to donate the 60' ROW
to the City and expect the City to build a road in the future or
are they going to build the road. The thinking of the developer
right now is that they will give the property as they will only be
losing 2 acres but they are not going to spend the money for the
road. All of these questions will need to be asked to the school
when they come in for the permit. All that will be coming before
the Commission at the next meeting will be the zoning of the
property not the site plan.
.
Pia Jarman:
Pia Jarman referred to the ordinance, specifically the one that
Merwin read three (3) times at the last meeting on time
limitations. Looking at the one in the UDC the only thing that is
different is the Planning and Zoning has been left out. The
question was what is meant by "reclassification". It still reads
the same so we are not sure what the meaning of the word is.
Steve Simonson stated what the lawyer said was basically the same
as he told the Commission. What you are saying it doesn't matter
what I want to do with my property you killed me for twelve (12)
months if you say I can't do this no matter what else I may want to
do with it. No matter what you say or like, I am still dead for
twelve (12) months. The lawyer advised we could be in trouble over
this and get sued. At this point the Commission has left
themselves open because you advised the petitioner if he were to
come back with something else you would reconsider.
Pia Jarman stated if the Commission is having problems
understanding this then it should be clarified in the UDC so no one
has to go through what we are going through. Steve Simonson stated
he has asked Mike Spain to look at the new UDC and to give us a
suggestion for a rewrite. This question was specifically asked to
the lawyer because of the situation with Mike Lancaster.
.
Merwin Willman asked Pia to wait and see what the lawyer comes up
-11-
.
e
. with and then just change the wording as need be.
Councilman Ken Greenwald:
Councilman Ken Greenwald thanked everyone who had taken the tour.
It was very interesting there was some new territory from a
different angle. The people that weren't there "you missed a good
tour and a good lunch".
Councilman Ken Greenwald reminded everyone not to forget the 4th of
July which will run from the 3rd through the 7th. As far as the
fire works there is not an area that is safe so if they are unable
to set them off, November 11 when they do the Universal City Parade
they will do the fire works. There is going to be a lot of
entertainment and should be a good year.
Coucnilman Ken Greenwald mentioned that Mr. Johnson has been at
several BVYA openings he is an ex pro ball player from the 70's and
is a very good model for kids and the kids like him.
Steve Simonson:
Steve Simonson asked the Commissioners who wanted to be on the
Comprehensive Plan Committee and when would the best day be to
meet. The Committee decided that June 20th at 7:00 p.m. would be
the best time to meet.
.
Steve Simonson stated Joe Veytia's property at the corner of
Schertz Parkway and Elbel has now run out of the sixth (6) month
extension for the R-4 zoning for apartments. If the Commission is
in agreement Mr. Veytia will be advised to attend the next
meeting. The Commission agreed to have Mr. Veytia at the next
meeting.
110 ADJOURNMENT:
David Richmond moved to adjourn the meeting. Gary Wallace seconded
the motion, which carried with a unanimous vote.
Chairwoman Pia Jarman adjourned the meeting at 9:00 p.m.
The next regularly scheduled meeting is June 25, 1996.
.r>
< , -
~'
Planning and Zoning Commission
.
~TTEST:
.~ . - "" '.
....::l)Cl"-'G<U >~/IOv ~y/(>~'/\
Planning Secretary v
City of Schertz, Texas
-12-